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Beer Drinking In Germany

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preacher4truth

Active Member
This week I listened to Dr. Erwin Lutzer answer a question on his broadcast from a person interested in discussing alcohol consumption. The question had details about her church which has some problems with their statement of faith and constitution/new members agreement as far as new members agreeing to not use alcohol in any form at any time, or they cannot join the church (in good conscience at least). The pastor of this church believes alcohol use is permissable, as long as people aren't getting drunk, or as long as they aren't drunkards. Some in the church agree with him, while others do not, so they are having a rift.

Dr. Lutzer illustrated his response by talking about his visits to Germany. While visiting there, Dr. Lutzer talked of German Christians as drinking beer, and often, never thinking about it as wrong, and, that these Christians were devoted to God, and are spirit-filled believers who live for God.

Can their stance be true and right in your opinion?

It seems they enjoyed beer daily. A good couple of beers daily at a sitting, or more, can certainly cause one to get 'buzzed' yet these drink it without conscience and I cannot believe they don't get quite 'merry' in so doing. :)

Has culture in the US caused unfounded guilt upon Christians for consuming alcohol?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yes and no.

Christians have to acknowledge the culture in which they live if they are going to be a witness and we live in a culture of excess – so maybe the guilt is not unfounded. But I believe it is a matter between the believer and God. I do not believe the church should present it as a sin, but warnings concerning drinking are not unfounded or unbiblical.

(Spurgeon’s cigars also come to mind).
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
preacher4truth said:
This week I listened to Dr. Erwin Lutzer answer a question on his broadcast from a person interested in discussing alcohol consumption. The question had details about her church which has some problems with their statement of faith and constitution/new members agreement as far as new members agreeing to not use alcohol in any form at any time, or they cannot join the church (in good conscience at least). The pastor of this church believes alcohol use is permissable, as long as people aren't getting drunk, or as long as they aren't drunkards. Some in the church agree with him, while others do not, so they are having a rift.

Dr. Lutzer illustrated his response by talking about his visits to Germany. While visiting there, Dr. Lutzer talked of German Christians as drinking beer, and often, never thinking about it as wrong, and, that these Christians were devoted to God, and are spirit-filled believers who live for God.

Can their stance be true and right in your opinion?

It seems they enjoyed beer daily. A good couple of beers daily at a sitting, or more, can certainly cause one to get 'buzzed' yet these drink it without conscience and I cannot believe they don't get quite 'merry' in so doing. :)

Has culture in the US caused unfounded guilt upon Christians for consuming alcohol?
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unfounded guilt..... Pray tell from who (or is it whom)? :rolleyes:
 
G

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
preacher4truth said:
Dr. Lutzer illustrated his response by talking about his visits to Germany. While visiting there, Dr. Lutzer talked of German Christians as drinking beer, and often, never thinking about it as wrong, and, that these Christians were devoted to God, and are spirit-filled believers who live for God.

Can their stance be true and right in your opinion?

Has culture in the US caused unfounded guilt upon Christians for consuming alcohol?
Click to expand...
A friend of mine who pastored for several years in Germany told me that being drunk was considered taboo and the person thought to be stupid.

My personal experience has been in areas where there is the most taboo there is also the most abuse. When I lived in the south I saw far more alcohol in the refrigerators of Christians there than when I lived in wine country.

The way to find an Amish home is a small vineyard and lack of power lines.

I would abstain from almost anything that might create a roadblock to people following me as I follow Jesus. Eating too much can cause another a problem. It bothers me when I try to listen to a fat preacher as he huffs and puffs. I want to get him out to run and out from the table. Personally I do not think there should be one fat preacher in any pulpit. When was the last time we heard a fat preacher talk about abstaining from alcohol also talk about gluttony and being fat. My wife works in a hospital and she has mentioned about how many things are associated with being fat and over weight. It is huge. It is society that pays for such obesity.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JonC said:
Yes and no.

Christians have to acknowledge the culture in which they live if they are going to be a witness and we live in a culture of excess – so maybe the guilt is not unfounded. But I believe it is a matter between the believer and God. I do not believe the church should present it as a sin, but warnings concerning drinking are not unfounded or unbiblical.

(Spurgeon’s cigars also come to mind).
Click to expand...

True cigars are filthy & disgusting..... I would substitute with marijuana in a second. After all, look at all the medicinal advantages of pot over tobacco. :laugh:
 
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Jerome

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lutzer didn't mention the recent resignation of the head of Germany's Evangelical Church for drunk driving at five times the legal limit, did he?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Germany’s DWI laws are stricter than here in America. I lived there for several years, I don’t know if I’d consider their view of drunkenness as taboo. While frowned upon, there was an awful lot of it to go around.
 
L

Luke2427

Active Member
gb93433 said:
A friend of mine who pastored for several years in Germany told me that being drunk was considered taboo and the person thought to be stupid.

My personal experience has been in areas where there is the most taboo there is also the most abuse. When I lived in the south I saw far more alcohol in the refrigerators of Christians there than when I lived in wine country.

The way to find an Amish home is a small vineyard and lack of power lines.

I would abstain from almost anything that might create a roadblock to people following me as I follow Jesus. Eating too much can cause another a problem. It bothers me when I try to listen to a fat preacher as he huffs and puffs. I want to get him out to run and out from the table. Personally I do not think there should be one fat preacher in any pulpit. When was the last time we heard a fat preacher talk about abstaining from alcohol also talk about gluttony and being fat. My wife works in a hospital and she has mentioned about how many things are associated with being fat and over weight. It is huge. It is society that pays for such obesity.
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I agree- and I'm a big boy.

I think the answer is that all preachers, because they are all humans, have strengths and weaknesses- all of them have areas they fall down on the job in.

The guy who runs a marathon and does not sit down to study and shoots from the hip most sundays is more disqualified than the fat preacher who studies 30 hours a week.

The key is to NOT condemn unecessarily. If the fat preacher does not condemn other people for their weaknesses in areas where he may be strong, he is a lot easier to listen to.

Luther was fat. Spurgeon was fat. Moody was fat.

But gluttony is at least as great an evil as drunkenness.

God can use all sorts.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
Luke2427 said:
I agree- and I'm a big boy.

I think the answer is that all preachers, because they are all humans, have strengths and weaknesses- all of them have areas they fall down on the job in.

The guy who runs a marathon and does not sit down to study and shoots from the hip most sundays is more disqualified than the fat preacher who studies 30 hours a week.

The key is to NOT condemn unecessarily. If the fat preacher does not condemn other people for their weaknesses in areas where he may be strong, he is a lot easier to listen to.

Luther was fat. Spurgeon was fat. Moody was fat.

But gluttony is at least as great an evil as drunkenness.

God can use all sorts.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

And God calls, uses, in spite of our weaknesses.
 
H

HAMel

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reminds me of the story of D.L Moody meeting Spurgeon for the first time. Moody, a large robust man was greet at the door by Spurgeon smoking a cigar. Moody went nuts asking, "What are you doing with that...?" Spurgeon, with his finger poked at Moody's stomach and replied, "The same thing you are doing with that....!"

...or so the story goes.

People are certainly too quick on the draw to find fault in others..., in my most humble opinion.
 
G

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
matt wade said:
Yep..here we go again with those like want to justify the sin of consuming alcohol doing so by condemning fat preachers. It's like clockwork.
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So the Bible is a lie? Timothy did not drink wine for his stomach? Jesus did not drink wine and turn water into wine. It was just an illusion?
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
matt wade said:
Yep..here we go again with those like want to justify the sin of consuming alcohol doing so by condemning fat preachers. It's like clockwork.
Click to expand...

So the thread began in order to condemn fat and/or gluttonous preachers in order to justify the drinking of alcohol? :laugh: :laugh:

Jesus consumed wine, but I'd bet He didn't over eat, nor was He fat. I say this since you want to 'go there.' :) :thumbsup:
 
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