freeatlast
New Member
Why is man lost? Is it because of Adams sin or his own?
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Being lost
- Thread starter freeatlast
- Start date
Greektim
Well-Known Member
lost due us being found "in Adam" by whole human race being judged guilty before God, as we are born in original sin/depraved, having sin natures
Also lost in sense we actively choose to sin , act out our sin natures before God...
Lost as in someone can't find their way. Why can't they find their way because they are spiritually dead in tresspasses and sins. Spiritual things are foolishness to the lost they can't understand them. Since they are spiritually seperated from a relationship with God they are Spiritually dead, because everyone except Jesus was born in Spiritual death with an Old Sin nature and therefore because Adam passed this on to us as an inheritence we are lost, dead because of Adam.
When someone says something so concisely and correctly there is nothing else others should add...
freeatlast
New Member
Well it looks like from the answers that the bible must not be clear as to why man is lost since no scripture was given and the different answers. If man is lost because of both Adams sin and his own sin then at some point in mans life he is not lost as he has not always sinned.
Also it would mean that all those before the law was given are not lost since they could not have sinned without law.
Third since Christ did away with the law at the cross then no one today is lost since they could not have sinned without law.
However according to scrpture man is lost because of one man's deed and we are saved by One Man's deed.
Romans 5:12-19 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
So we see by scripture that it is not our sins that makes us lost. No not even our sins and Adam's sin, but Adam's alone which causes man to be lost.
Also it would mean that all those before the law was given are not lost since they could not have sinned without law.
Third since Christ did away with the law at the cross then no one today is lost since they could not have sinned without law.
However according to scrpture man is lost because of one man's deed and we are saved by One Man's deed.
Romans 5:12-19 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
So we see by scripture that it is not our sins that makes us lost. No not even our sins and Adam's sin, but Adam's alone which causes man to be lost.
True!
Think BOTh Cals/Arms find something now we can agree on !
By What IF a person never had the "clearly revealed" truth presented to him/her...
Would they still be lost in their sins before God?
freeatlast
New Member
That may be your belief, but that is not what the bible says.
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation
To be fair here though...
the ONLY group of people in hell will be those who are born sinners and who HAVE rejected jesus as being the Lord...
Agree with you ALL are condemned by God as we are "In Adam" but also they will make that decision to reject jesus Christ...
Thats in the Bible!
Just see the Apostle John!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
That verse is speaking of man's condition prior to Christ coming and the work of the cross.
2 Thess 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Jesus said, "I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (Jn 12)
What condemn's mankind on the last day? Is it the imputed sin of Adam? NOPE! What does He say? The "very word which I spoke will condemn him." What is that "word?" The gospel truth!
"For I did not come to judge the world" based upon the "righteousness that comes through the law"....or Adam's imputed sin. But instead there is a "new righteousness being revealed" (Rm 3) which is not from LAW but through faith...this is what Christ has revealed as the "WORD." It is by that "NEW RIGHTEOUSNESS" that "WORD OF CHRIST" by which we are judged. If someone is condemned, he is condemned for his UNBELIEF (Rm 11:23; Heb 3 etc)
Heb 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
According to Rom 1, everyone has clearly seen and understood the eternal attributes and divine nature of God and thus have the responsibility to acknowledge God. It's because of this clearly seen and understood revelation that they stand without excuse.
If they do acknowledge God, as we see from people like Lydia ("God-worshipper") and Cornelius (God-fearer), then God may entrust them with more revelation of himself. Scripture seems to indicate men are held to account for their level of revelation.
This is another reason I reject Calvinism. It gives lost men the perfect excuse because it teaches that most of mankind can't and won't really ever clearly see and understand any revelation of God in any significant way.
freeatlast
New Member
Nope it is for all time
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Ok, I guess since you say so it must be true, despite the texts and sound reasoned arguments I provided.
This is a debate board, not your blog.
freeatlast
New Member
Ok, I guess since you say so it must be true, despite the texts and sound reasoned arguments I provided.
This is a debate board, not your blog.
all that matters is scripture and there is no scripture to back your reasoning.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Except for the ones I provided to which you did not respond, versus those you provided...oh wait, you provided nothing but your opinion...never mind.
freeatlast
New Member
according to scrpture man is lost because of one man's deed and we are saved by One Man's deed.
Romans 5:12-19 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
So we see by scripture that it is not our sins that makes us lost. No not even our sins and Adam's sin, but Adam's alone which causes man to be lost.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
I wonder why you neglected to highlight this part, "even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life"
Jesus clearly taught why men are ultimately condemned:
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
Why are they condemned? "Because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." End of discussion.
freeatlast
New Member
it was not high lighted Because we are not discussing that part. Man is lost because of birth, not unbellief. He remains lost if he remains in unbelief. We are not lost because we sin. We are lost because we are born through Adam.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
You might not have been, but I was. You made the point about man's condition due to Adams action and I was making the point that Christ changed everything with his action, thus the need to point to this phrase as well.
I didn't take issue with that, remember, I said we are lost due to our sin nature. I just went on to say that we are condemned in the end due to our unbelief, not our breaking of the law. The law and its curse has been fulfilled and dissolved once and for all.