Being religious vs. being spiritual

[Calv1]

What is the difference, if any, between being religious vs. being spiritual?

I see this everywhere, it's the new "Cop Out", "Not Religious, but Spiritual", anyone see that? Well Spiritual HOW? Evil Spirit? You always go to first cause of a word, and that maintains it's meaning, the first use of SPIRIT is in Genesis, if others wish to co-opt the word so they can seem, I don't even know what that means "Spiritual" to the normal man, of course to the Regenerate we are filled with the Holy Spirit, who is God, and He gives us life, but can only be used in terms of RELIGION.

Once again, liberalism, all of these phrases and terms that come up, are spread around, and then used as truth. It goes something like this, "Christianity is God chasing man, Religion is man chasing God", false, the term "Religion" has ALWAYS been a one on one reference to Christianity, read everyone from Luther to Pink, the word is RELIGION, for to them, and what should be to us, the only Religion is Christianity, yes there are false Religions, which aren't Religions at all. Glad someone posted this, one of my pet peeves "Oh I'm not Religious (In other words I have nothing to do with Christ or Church), but I FILL IN THE BLANK

 

[Calv1]

Being "in christ" means you are in "the word" which means you are in "torah obedience". These are all synonyms. Anything else is false gnosististic foolish theology with no substance.

Obedience is what pleases the Creator. Disobedience displeases Him. Do not mess up His formula or you will suffer the consequences. You have to read all of the book to get the picture, not just a few key phrases.

Jason that is faulty logic, "Being in Christ means being in the Word which means being in Torah, then you add "Obedience"? What? Christ did something wonderful for the elect, He lived a perfect life FOR THEM, then He made sure His sheep would never perish, how? By dying specifically for them, by doing this there sins could never be judged twice, so if you are in Christ, God has imputed Christs righteousness to you, and has literally punished your sins, on Christ.

You, alone, can do nothing but perish. This is the gospel, it's basic, clear, and found throughout the teachings of Christ, Paul etc. Oh just saw your Gnostic reference, by creating your little magic puzzle, it's actually Gnostic, if we could obey the OT Law we'd have no need of Christ, and by the way if YOU ARE TRYING TO FOLLOW THE TEN COMMANDMENTS then as Paul said to the Galatians, YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE, "He who lives by the law dies by the law". Are you living by the law? If so you better do 100% perfection, actually sorry it's too late, but why fall from grace?

 

[Jason1]

Jason that is faulty logic, "Being in Christ means being in the Word which means being in Torah, then you add "Obedience"? What? Christ did something wonderful for the elect, He lived a perfect life FOR THEM, then He made sure His sheep would never perish, how? By dying specifically for them, by doing this there sins could never be judged twice, so if you are in Christ, God has imputed Christs righteousness to you, and has literally punished your sins, on Christ.

You, alone, can do nothing but perish. This is the gospel, it's basic, clear, and found throughout the teachings of Christ, Paul etc. Oh just saw your Gnostic reference, by creating your little magic puzzle, it's actually Gnostic, if we could obey the OT Law we'd have no need of Christ, and by the way if YOU ARE TRYING TO FOLLOW THE TEN COMMANDMENTS then as Paul said to the Galatians, YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE, "He who lives by the law dies by the law". Are you living by the law? If so you better do 100% perfection, actually sorry it's too late, but why fall from grace?

Ok, this is idiotic thinking. Following the 10 commandments is falling from grace? So that means breaking the commandments is going toward grace? How backwards can people get these days?

Scripture is clear: obedience is required. The Father calls His people to turn back to him over and over and over. Yeshua didn't die so we could sin, he died so our penalty for sinning was paid, and now we can walk in newness of life (obeying without baggage attached from our former lives. Being born again means you walk according to the spirit (obedience) and not according to flesh (disobedience).

Why is obeying so hard for people to do? Why do people rebel? Why do they pervert the gospel into lawlessness? Refer to the marcion topic to read how this happened.

 

[Alcott]

Why is obeying so hard for people to do? Why do people rebel? Why do they pervert the gospel into lawlessness?

Paul beat you to those kind of questions.
I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin [Romans 7:21-25].

 

[Jason1]

Paul beat you to those kind of questions.
I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin [Romans 7:21-25].

Exactly, the flesh seeks to disobey while the spirit seeks obedience to the law. We are called to be spirit filled (obey)

 

[Alcott]

Exactly, the flesh seeks to disobey while the spirit seeks obedience to the law. We are called to be spirit filled (obey)

So Christ has made us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get all tied up again in the chains of slavery to Jewish laws and ceremonies. Listen to me, for this is serious: if you are counting on circumcision and keeping the Jewish laws to make you right with God, then Christ cannot save you. I’ll say it again. Anyone trying to find favor with God by being circumcised must always obey every other Jewish law or perish. Christ is useless to you if you are counting on clearing your debt to God by keeping those laws; you are lost from God’s grace [Galatians 5:1-4].

 

[Jason1]

So Christ has made us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get all tied up again in the chains of slavery to Jewish laws and ceremonies. Listen to me, for this is serious: if you are counting on circumcision and keeping the Jewish laws to make you right with God, then Christ cannot save you. I’ll say it again. Anyone trying to find favor with God by being circumcised must always obey every other Jewish law or perish. Christ is useless to you if you are counting on clearing your debt to God by keeping those laws; you are lost from God’s grace [Galatians 5:1-4].

I agree with this, but we do need to make a distinction for those unlearned:

Jewish law = oral laws created by man

Written law = eternal laws created by Elohim

Oral laws are bondage and slavery and have no real merit other than playing religion. Written laws are laws of freedom (as james says) and is the easy yoke that Yeshua speaks of. This is how the righteous live and what we will be judged by.

 

[MennoSota]

Exactly, the flesh seeks to disobey while the spirit seeks obedience to the law. We are called to be spirit filled (obey)

Your spirit is dead in trespasses and sins, Jason. You cannot be filled with the Spirit when you are dead.

 

[Jason1]

Your spirit is dead in trespasses and sins, Jason. You cannot be filled with the Spirit when you are dead.

Well was it prophesied of you:

Act 20:29 “For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves shall come in among you, not sparing the flock.

and

2Pe_3:17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,​

 

[MennoSota]

Well was it prophesied of you:

Act 20:29 “For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves shall come in among you, not sparing the flock.

and

2Pe_3:17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,​

Here's the word of truth to you, one who is still dead in his sins...

1 Corinthians 1
[18]The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

Ephesians 2:1-10
[1]Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.


The rest is for God's chosen, so it doesn't yet apply to you. Someday, maybe, but not at present.

[2]You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
[3]All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
[4]But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much,
[5]that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)
[6]For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.
[7]So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.
[8]God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
[9]Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
[10]For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

 

[Alcott]

Jewish law = oral laws created by man

Written law = eternal laws created by Elohim.

No; circumcision, the one most talked about in the letter, was clearly a written law.

 

[Jason1]

No; circumcision, the one most talked about in the letter, was clearly a written law.

Circumcision was a right of entry into judaism. It is still a torah commandment, but it should not be used as a barrier to prevent new converts from coming in. This is the issue. Acts 15 openly shows that the torah was read each sabbath so the new converts would grow in knowledge after entry.

 

[Calv1]

I would say that we have to investigate the postmodern judgements and language games involved in those words.

Religious is only allowed to be used to describe non-religious things favorably. You can be a religious runner, or drink coffee religiously. And that's ok. But being religious about your religion is somehow bad.

The word spiritual has its own set of baggage. But now people who never have time to attend a meeting or assembly can use it to feel superior to people who ar3 actually part of a local church.

Good job! It's the intent of the word, "Spiritual" means, in modern vernacular, NOTHING, I see it everywhere "I'm Spiritual but not Religious", fine what kind of Spiritual? Evil Spiritual? The term "Religion" has also been turned on it's head, it's common meaning among our fathers is "CHRISTIANITY", look up all of the great commentators, they use the words interchangeably, and as I said before "Spirit", you can't hijack a word, you have to go to it's first use, that occurs in history in Genesis, so when people say they are "Spiritual", the meaning is "Filled with Holy Spirit", "Religious" means "Christianity", the rest is word games

 

[Calv1]

Fulfilled never meant ended. Yeshua's own words testify to this fact in the same passage.

The lawless ones hate the Creator. The lawless ones are condemned. The lawless will perish in the 2nd death.

Who says "Fulfilled" means "Ended", do you know what the bible means when it says we are "Dead to the Law"? It means that the law CANNOT JUDGE US ANYMORE, for Christ fulfilled it's demands, and we receive a "foreign Righteousness". This righteousness is given us through the Spirit, and we do what? Live towards righteousness, God's moral law, to not kill, steal, murder, etc. will always "exist", the question is "are we to live under the law, and die under it", or accept God's unspeakable gift of a new heart? I mean this is Christianity 101, if Christ only took the punishment for our sins, we'd be innocent, but not righteous, I'm amazed how many don't know the first part, that Christ had to live a righteous life FOR US. I didn't at first so I don't want to be a hypocrite

 

[Alcott]

Circumcision was a right of entry into judaism. It is still a torah commandment, but it should not be used as a barrier to prevent new converts from coming in.

Yes or No: Is circumcision of the written law?
Yes or No: Is Christ of 'any value' to one who tries to justify himself through the Law (oral or written)?

 

[Jason1]

Yes or No: Is circumcision of the written law?
Yes or No: Is Christ of 'any value' to one who tries to justify himself through the Law (oral or written)?

1: YES
2: Oral - NO, Written - YES

Watch what Paul says here:

Rom_2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
​

James hits it pretty hard too:

Jas_2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?​

And where do these guys get this info?:

Deu 6:24 ‘And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws, to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.
Deu 6:25 ‘And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Elohim, as He has commanded us.’​

 

[Alcott]

True or False: Christ is useless to you if you are counting on clearing your debt to God by keeping those laws; you are lost from God’s grace.

 

[Jason1]

True or False: Christ is useless to you if you are counting on clearing your debt to God by keeping those laws; you are lost from God’s grace.

Debts only come by breaking those laws. Israel broke them and thus needed a redeemer to buy them back to the Father.

So now:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins,
Heb 10:27 but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents.​

 

[JonC]

What is the difference, if any, between being religious vs. being spiritual?

The Pharisees were religious while the Gnostics were spiritual.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

OK, I'll jump in. In my experience, when people say, "I'm spiritual, not religious," they usually mean one of these things:

1. There are negative connotations to the word "religious." It equates to being a legalistic stick in the mud who isn't allowed to do anything fun. thinks everything is a sin, and goes around telling everybody else what they can and can't do. I don't want to be like that, so I'm going to call it something besides religious. That way I can even feel morally superior to those prune-faced "church lady" types.
2. I have vague beliefs that there is something more to life, but I don't really care much about it, and I'm certainly not going to let it influence my behavior any.
3. I haven't really decided what to believe. I'll just spout off anything that sounds pretty.