Being slain in the Spirit?

[Ray Berrian]

Acts 9:4; Revelation 1:17 and Acts 26:14 are all indication of the overpowering Presence of the Holy Spirit. Study the later phrase of verse 14 as to what God means. It was difficult for Saul to continue to go against the providences of the Lord God--thus the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Acts 26:14 indicates that the Spirit of God disabled all of the travelers for a period of time. This was not a voluntary act of kneeling before the Lord. You put a new name on this. Bible expositors have named it as being 'slain in the Spirit.' My guess that the word, 'slain' is used because it happens quickly!

Millions of wonderful Christians have experienced this great and wonderful spiritual mountain top event in their lives. I personally have had the Holy Spirit move that close to me where I was unable to get up when I wanted to stand to my feet.

This is what happens at the crusades when men like Pastor Hinn and Oral Robert's son blesses these brethren.

You explain Acts 26:14 and rename this phenemenon and we will use your new label.

Berrian, Th.D.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Justification by faith is not a 'gift of the Spirit' either. You are saying we should say this experience of falling out because the Spirit of God touches certain people is wrong and not one of the 'gifts of the Spirit.' Do you want us to deny that justification by faith or sanctification are wrong too, just because they are not 'gifts of the Spirit?'

Your argument is very weak plus illogical.

You have been given Act 9 and Revelation chapter one but 'play it off' with you personal erring interpretations.

We rest our case.

You ought to rest completely. You confuse doctrine with experience.
You base doctrine on experience.
When a man falls of his horse you say he is slain in the spirit?? Even though that term was never even heard of or invented until the 20th century along with the modern day tongue's movement.

Revelation 1:16-17 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Like Isaiah, John fell before the glorified Lord in worship, awe and wonderment. No one in the Bible has never done that falling backward, but always forward. If you have evidence to the contrary bring it forward.

17. So fallen is man that God's manifestation of His glorious presence overwhelms him.
laid his right hand upon me--So the same Lord Jesus did at the Transfiguration to the three prostrate disciples, of whom John was one, saying, Be not afraid. The "touch" of His hand, as of old, imparted strength. (Jamieson, Faucett, and Brown)

There is no evidence that John fell backward.
There is no evidence that John was "slain in the spirit."
There is no evidence that being "slain in the spirit" is even from God. It may be from another spirit.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:


Bible expositors have named it as being 'slain in the Spirit.' My guess that the word, 'slain' is used because it happens quickly!

Will you please list and quote from these "most expositors." Back up your claim.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

Bible expositors do not have to be men theologians who have interpreted the Bible and paid for it to be in a text.

Millions have testified that the Bible records that God causes men to fall to the ground. In Acts 24:14 do you think these various men just got 'down off their horses' as you suggest and worshipped the Lord. No, the fall was in connection with the brilliant light that surrounded all the travelers and caused them to fall because the Lord chose to move on them in this unique way. Notice, apparently no one got hurt from the fall.

God works differently with various people. Probably a lot of people do not have the same experience when they get save or later in their Christian journey with Him.

Do all Christians see this 'brilliant light?' Do all hear Jesus audibly speaking to them? Do all speak with tongues? Do all people cry when they get saved? Are all people riding on 'the horses you speak about? Do all Christians have visions? Are all people saved only when traveling? I think you know the answer to these questions.

And keep in mind that God does not have to give to people the same experiences when they get saved or anytime after in their spiritual journey.

I will find you a couple of theologians who explain Acts 26;14 when you explain how all new believers in Biblical times got immersed in baptismal water when they got saved when water was a precious commodity and there were no First Baptist Churches in every village. You ignored this previous challenge in a former post.

At least some of us have a Biblical basis for saying that the Lord has moved on us in this unique way. Acts 9:4; Revelation 1:17; Acts 26:14.

Christians know when they have experiences with Him and you should learn not to put our God in your rigid theological constraints.

When I was in my 30's and my two sons were children and daughter was just born, I pastored a church in Martinsburg and also worked as chaplain at a nursing home. One dying lady told me that the previous night to my visit, she had angels surrounding her at either side and at the foot of her bed.

I told her that was wonderful and must have been a source of comfort for her in her troubling experience of sickness.

Just because I never saw an angel does not mean that the Lord cannot allow these experiences to happen in our credible people's lives.

The Lord is greater than our limited understanding, and yet there is always a basic Scriptural backing for such experiences.

 

[DHK]

So you just proved my point. There are no Bible expositors that can back up your position. Benny Hinn can. He is a heretic. He is not even saved. He believes that Satan atoned for your sins. These are the kind of people that believe in being "slain by the spirit" Yes sir! Real theologians they are, aren't they!!
DHK

 

[Pete]

I've been a good boy. Just reading a bit, rolling eyes at the time and generally keeping out of this. Went through this discussion a couple of years ago with Ray and all I saw coming out of it was a bit of typing practice for me. Then again with the board getting all sorts of hits maybe it is getting read by someone, so here we go again, round II

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
You have been given Act 9 and Revelation chapter one but 'play it off' with you personal erring interpretations.

I see Ray, WE are the ones with "personal erring interpretations"

By Ray:
At least some of us have a Biblical basis for saying that the Lord has moved on us in this unique way. Acts 9:4; Revelation 1:17; Acts 26:14.

"Be fair dinkum mate" said the Aussie (an interpreter can translate it ). The only way any Biblical basis can be given for the "slain in the spirit" thing is by doing a Rubik's Cube effort on the Bible.

In thinking of writing this reply the other day I came up with this example. I can Biblically prove why Bugs Bunny always beats Daffy Duck in Warner Brothers cartoons. God created birds in Genesis 1:20-21, animals later in Genesis 1:24-25, and in Matthew 20:16 Jesus said "the last shall be first, and the first last" ... Which is about the same level of taking verses out of context that has to be done to prove the "slain in the spirit" practice.


...Had a couple of paragraphs scribbled here but may have been a bit too nasty so decided to delete them for now

One tip though Ray and others, using Benny Hinn as a character/doctrine reference is not such a great idea Look it up people, he is a false prophet, false teacher, and probably false hair with it

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Having been raised in a Pentecostal background (AoG), and having been ordained in the Pentecostal movement, I am very familiar with the Slain in the Spirit teaching.

First off, let me say I am no longer with the Pentecostal crowd, but still preach the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Many years ago, through much study and prayer, the Spirit revealed to me the err in the Slain in the Spirit movement in the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches.

In scripture, whenever people were touched by the Lord, or convicted by His Spirit, they fell to their knees in an act of obedience and humility. We never see one falling backward when accepting the Spirit.

In my many years, I have seen many who were 'slain in the Spirit' return to their flesh the following day. Scripture uses the word 'slain' to mean killed. If the Spirit kills ones fleshly nature, why does one return to the very same nature that was supposedly destroyed as the phrase 'slain' implies?

Something indeed does happen to these people, I will not deny it. But I do believe many fall backward because of subliminal thoughts. They see hundreds fall backward in healing services and therefore, that is how it is supposed to be done.

In my many years as a minister of the gospel, I have never fell backwards when the Spirit impressed my heart to humble myself before the Lord, but it has brought me to my knees many times.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
In scripture, whenever people were touched by the Lord, or convicted by His Spirit, they fell to their knees in an act of obedience and humility. We never see one falling backward when accepting the Spirit.

In my many years as a minister of the gospel, I have never fell backwards when the Spirit impressed my heart to humble myself before the Lord, but it has brought me to my knees many times.

Good points. I believe you are right. I had a current AOG pastor tell me the same thing recently. He has been criticized by the AOG leadership for not being charismatic enough but the congregation loves him.

How can we stand when God reaches the innermost part of us?

 

[Ray Berrian]

standingfirminChrist,

You said, '. . . but it has brought me to my knees many times.'

If you were a trained pastor for ministry you would not call God the Holy Spirit an 'it.' I notice some person on the topic of the "Holy Spirit" referred to Him as it. Probably it was a new Christian.

Secondly, I too have bowed to the direction of the Spirit of God in pastoring and in preaching and have not fallen to the ground/floor through the years.

And yet one time in Bible College I was gently forced to the floor and experienced a Heavenly feeling like God pouring liquid love in my life. I guess it is better to explaining the experience than placing a name tag on this kind of confrontation with God the Spirit.

We do the Lord a disservice when we set only certain ways in which the Holy Spirit can minister His Presence in our lives. He does not give every Christian the same experiences in the Christian faith.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ray Berrian,

The Spirit is referred to in scripture as both He and It. Read John 1:32 & 1 Peter 1:11.

The Holy Spirit is clearly referenced as 'it' in these two passages.

So, I was not wrong in referring to the Holy Spirit as 'it'.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

As I said earlier, the Holy Spirit can be referred to as 'it', or 'he'.

To ease your conscience, Ray, I do not always call the Spirit 'it', but do refer to the Holy Spirit as 'he' when my heart is impressed to do so.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:

If you were a trained pastor for ministry you would not call God the Holy Spirit an 'it.' I notice some person on the topic of the "Holy Spirit" referred to Him as it. Probably it was a new Christian.

You have judged me and my qualifications or suitability for the ministry, and now you attack this brother in the same way for such a ridiculous thing. Why do you demean people so much and personally attack them when there is no need. What you did is actually show your ignorance of the English grammar.

In my many years as a minister of the gospel, I have never fell backwards when the Spirit impressed my heart to humble myself before the Lord, but it has brought me to my knees many times.

What has brought me to my knees (i.e, him)? It is the experience that he is referring to, not necessarily the Holy Spirit which you accuse him of. The experience that the Holy Spirit caused him to be humbled it brought him to his knees. It is a simple matter of English grammar, and there is no need to demean anyone for it.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

standingfirminchrist,

Yes, I know what our KJV says about John 1:32. I am not a Greek scholar but you must always go back to what copies of the Greek manuscripts have to say. The Greek indicates that 'He' {the Holy Spirit} abode on Christ.

As to I Peter 1:11 the rendering really says this.

'Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ forewitnessing for 'the' {ta} Christ His sufferings and after this the glory.'

God the Spirit has Personhood, volition and emotion as noted in John 14:16, thus has Personhood just as God the Father and the Son.

The Holy Spirit is no a free floating spirit that we can degrade His value, just as we would not think less of God the Father or God the Son. As you and I both know Jesus had Personhood, volition and emotions.

.

Berrian, Th.D.

You said, 'The Spirit is referred to in scripture as both He and It. Read John 1:32 & 1 Peter 1:11.

The Holy Spirit is clearly referenced as 'it' in these two passages.

So, I was not wrong in referring to the Holy Spirit as 'it'.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

For those that feel that it is ok to fall backwards, I challenge you with this...

Go to a church where this is practiced. Stand behind a lady or a man when the minister is laying hands on that person. As the person begins to fall backwards, quickly step to the right or left and let the person fall.

If that person is truly 'slain in the Spirit', that person will not be hurt. But my guess is that person will have a knot on his or her head from the fall and will either get up quickly and say something unchristian, or punch you, or both.

Would be interesting to find what spirit they are slain in.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Covert christian?

Aren't we were supposed to be bold in the faith? Jesus said if we deny Him before man, He will deny us before the Father. How are we bold witnesses if we are covert in our faith?

 

[Ray Berrian]

Phillip,

I know various experiences that Christians have are not always defined in detail for us.

I had a woman who was dying in a nursing home tell me that she saw angels around her bed who comforted her. Can you give me a book, chapter and verse for this experience.

When I was in Bible College in a dorm room praying with perhaps five men, the Holy Spirit moved on me and I could sense that He was moving toward me and then without anyone touching me, it was like a big soft pillow pushed me over. I felt as if the Lord were pouring His liquid love into my being.

You cannot always put 'God in a box' and think that He must stay within your guidelines. Our experiencees in the faith can generally be documented from His Word the Bible.

Revelation 1:17; Acts 9:4 a; Acts 22:7, and another passage speaking of Saul's salvation experience says, 'all who were with him fell to the ground' because of the billiant light of God's Presence and His overwhelming power. Some of us Christians have experienced this closeness of the Spirit of God. He is sovereign in these matters. It only happened to me once, but it was most vividly real to me. I could not get up until He wanted to allow me to rise. This was witnessed by about five brother in the faith.

Miracles are happening every day as the Lord desires to make them happen. I am praying that He will allow the Muslim people to experience His might miracles in revealing Himself to these most needy people in this way and through hearing the message of salvation. The Lord has a lot of arrows in His quiver.

The Word of God is the final authority as to whether these experiences are true or false. But, don't be surprised if the Lord creates a miracle that you thought He could not perform.

The Lord and His Being is greater than your 'precast moulds.'

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
For those that feel that it is ok to fall backwards, I challenge you with this...

Go to a church where this is practiced. Stand behind a lady or a man when the minister is laying hands on that person. As the person begins to fall backwards, quickly step to the right or left and let the person fall.

If that person is truly 'slain in the Spirit', that person will not be hurt. But my guess is that person will have a knot on his or her head from the fall and will either get up quickly and say something unchristian, or punch you, or both.

Would be interesting to find what spirit they are slain in.

I did fall back and hit my head on a 2x4 and no it din't hurt and there was no lump or soreness. The man and his wife that was praying for me asked if I was ok.

I was never better!

 

[Ray Berrian]

music4Him,

God created several million galaxies in the heavens. I think you would agree with this statement scientifically speaking.

On the other hand, you have difficulties believing that a human being falling in any direction would nearly always have to injury himself or herself with God the Spirit in control. You are very illogical.

You have another God than I believe in as a Christian. Or perhaps I could say it this way, "Your God is too, too small for me."

.

standingfirminChrist, said,

'For those that feel that it is ok to fall backwards, I challenge you with this...

Go to a church where this is practiced. Stand behind a lady or a man when the minister is laying hands on that person. As the person begins to fall backwards, quickly step to the right or left and let the person fall.

If that person is truly 'slain in the Spirit', that person will not be hurt. But my guess is that person will have a knot on his or her head from the fall and will either get up quickly and say something unchristian, or punch you, or both.

Would be interesting to find what spirit they are slain in.'

One place in the N.T. it says that all who traveled with Saul fell in the Presence of God in all of His brightness and power. The other two references are in Acts and it merely speaks about Saul falling under the power of the Holy Spirit.

Are you saying that all of Saul's fellow travelers were experiencing a phenmenon that was not of the Lord God?

.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I have searched through scripture time and again and have yet to find one verse that says they fell backward when accepting the Lord's touch.

 

[tamborine lady]

I haven't found anywhere where it said NOT
to fall backwards either, so I guess it really doesn't matter. I've seen them go forward, some go backwards.

Peace,

Tam