Being slain in the Spirit?

[standingfirminChrist]

Ge 17:3,17; Nu 16:4; 22:31; Jos 5:14; 7:6; Ru 2:10; 1Sa 17:49; 20:41; 25:23; 2Sa 9:6; 14:4,22; 18:28; 1Ki 18:7; 1Ch 5:10; 2Ch 20:18; Eze 1:28; 3:23; 9:8; 11:13; 39:23; 43:3; 44:4; Da 2:46; 8:17; Mt 17:6; 26:39; Lu 5:12; 17:16

All of these verses clearly show people fell to their faces, not backward

 

[atestring]

Standinig firm,
If people start falling forward are you saying you would accept being slain in the Spirit as Biblical?

 

[music4Him]

If you are really seeking the Lord's face and He touches you do you think you'll stand? That is if you really want a touch from God. In the bible people were scared if they seen an angel of the Lord least they die!(Judges 13:22) It says the men guarding the tomb of Jesus became as dead men. (Matt. 28:4) So wouldn't it go to follow that if the Lord's presence shows up or He touches or breaths on you that you could possibly become weakened, or even fall forward, backwards or even sideways? MOHO, I think this stuff about how you fall is somewhat how superstitions(sp?) get started? Like old grannys would make you chase a black cat back across the street before she'd drive on down the road to Dairy Queen.

 

[tamborine lady]

I'lltell you what is amazing to me! All these people who are full grown, mature men and women saying boldly that this is not of God, and this is of the devil, etc.

There is no room for saying that! You can say you disagree, and that's O.K., but to label something that God calls good in the bible is putting yourselves on very dangerous ground.

Jer 7-24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

THAT, my friends is when "backwards" is bad!!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[Ray Berrian]

Tam,

Preach it sister.

I never personally met a Christian face to face even though they did not believe in 'the gift'-- speak evil of it just in case they were wrong. They were always careful around things that are associated with the Spirit of God.

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

"Being slain in the spirit today is always "falling backward under as so-called influence spirit of A spirit, not necessarily the Holy Spirit."

No its not.

People are encountering Almighty God manifesting Himself to them in an overwhelming way. They respond by being...overwhelmed.

Its just amazing to me how obsessed you are with paying atention to the direction that they fall, and then criticizing them for it.

I've seen people fall forward, backward, sideways, and darn near straight down. Sometimes they shake before they fall and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they praise God as they fall and sometimes they dont.

It is 100% irrelavent what direction they fell when they fell in the scriptures, and it is 100% irrelavent what direction they fall when they fall today.

They are simply OVERWHELMED by Gods Glory and they FALL!

What would you do? Stand there, overwhelmed by Gods presence, and say to God...

"I wont fall, and YOU...CANT...MAKE ME!"

(the smiley face means its just a light hearted little dig, thats all. I know full well you wouldnt say that to God)

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

I said...

"Its just amazing to me how obsessed you are with paying attention to the direction that they fall, and then criticizing them for it."

That reminds me of something.

The main fellowship I am a part of is sort of a pentecostal/charismatic type. During our praise and worship we get quite "happy" and joyful. People are touched by God and they are free to express it.

Well, several years ago we were invited by another church to join them for a joint service at their place. They are also a pentecostal type of church, but a bit more reserved then we are.

Well, during the extended praise and worship our people became quite "happy" ...as is our normal way. Jumping, shouting praises to God, hand clapping, etc. Just beautiful spontanious praise and worship.

(and we had no idea they would not be the same way of course)

Anyway, we later found out that one of the ladies at that fellwship spoke with our pastor and was very critical. She said that she noticed during the praise and worship that while one of our "20 something" married women was jumping, her shirt came up a couple of times, just briefly, and this woman actually saw a couple of inches of her tummy.

Horrors!

Well anyway, I didnt have any desire to make a big thing about this...and I didnt...but I sort of thought how I might like to ask her about that.

Something like...

.........hypothetical quote here......

"You expressed your concern and desire to sort of rebuke her for her tummy showing a bit while she jumped, but I'm wondering something.

This happened during praise and worship? And of course thats when we are all supposed to be focusing on praising and worshipping our God

So why, instead of that, where you looking around at people around you to make sure they measure up instead of being preoccupied with worshipping your God?

And with that in mind, who do you think God was more pleased with?

Her, in her unabashed worship of God with her tummy showing.

Or you looking around being critical of others during the time set aside to praise and worship our God?

.........end of hypothetical quote........

Of course, I'm not saying this is an exact match with our situation regarding this topic. But it popped into my mind just as I posted my last post, and I thought it sort of similiar

Just some food for thought.

In~His~Grace~

Mike

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Women are to dress in a modest way according to scripture. Now, the Bible teaches we are not to uncover our nakedness to others, so I wonder how one can justify jumping around to the point their shirts ride up and show their flesh underneath? I also wonder how one can justify wallowing around on the floor like a fish out of water or like a serpent slithering on its belly? I have seen both in the pentecostal faith I was ordained in.

 

[D28guy]

Daughter...

"Many who recommend this practice believe that those of us who don't are somehow missing out or even infer that we aren't worshipping as fervently as they."

I would disagree with them, and many on our side of this issue would as well.

"3. I simply cannot think of any benefit, spiritual or otherwise from such an experience."

I have never met one single person...and I've know multitudes...who has had an experience like this (and I personally have had some) who has not testified as to how wonderful, beneficial, and fruitfull their lives were afterwords.

"In prayer, yes. In Bible study, fasting, worship... yes."

I am in favor of all of those things. They are all wonderful.

"but what is falling over all about?"

People encounter God in an unexpected and very profound and overwhelming way. God grants them this encounter, and sometimes it is so profound, beautiful and intimate that it weakens them, and the fall in worship of their great God and Father.

Thats what its all about.

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

StandingfirminChrist,

"Women are to dress in a modest way according to scripture."

I know this woman personally. She was dressed in a modest way.

Now, the Bible teaches we are not to uncover our nakedness to others,"

She was not uncovering her nakedness to anybody. Her shirt rose up a bit, for a second or so as she jumped up, and her...tummy...showed.

That is no more "exposing her nakedness" than if you take off your wristwatch and your wrist is exposed.

"...so I wonder how one can justify jumping around to the point their shirts ride up and show their flesh underneath?"

Because they are worshipping God...joyfully... and sometimes shirts do that.

"I also wonder how one can justify wallowing around on the floor like a fish out of water or like a serpent slithering on its belly?"

I've never seen anyone wallowing like a fish, or slithering like a serpent.

I have seen people fall under the overwhelming love and power of God manifesting Himself in an overwhelming way just like people in the sciptures did in the same circumstances.

I have seen both in the pentecostal faith I was ordained in.

Than you have probably seen some excess. It happens sometimes.

God bless,

Mike

 

[atestring]

Mike,
If some people have a problem with a woman showing modest skin,
What would thet think about
David when he danced after the Ark OfTheCovenant was returned?

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by atestring:
Mike,
If some people have a problem with a woman showing modest skin,
What would thet think about
David when he danced after the Ark OfTheCovenant was returned?

Amen Bro. atestring!
I was thinking the same thing. Also lest we forget what happened to Michal for criticizing David.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by D28guy:
DHK,

I said...

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Its just amazing to me how obsessed you are with paying attention to the direction that they fall, and then criticizing them for it."

That reminds me of something.

The main fellowship I am a part of is sort of a pentecostal/charismatic type. During our praise and worship we get quite "happy" and joyful. People are touched by God and they are free to express it.

Well, several years ago we were invited by another church to join them for a joint service at their place. They are also a pentecostal type of church, but a bit more reserved then we are.

Well, during the extended praise and worship our people became quite "happy" ...as is our normal way. Jumping, shouting praises to God, hand clapping, etc. Just beautiful spontanious praise and worship.

(and we had no idea they would not be the same way of course)

Anyway, we later found out that one of the ladies at that fellwship spoke with our pastor and was very critical. She said that she noticed during the praise and worship that while one of our "20 something" married women was jumping, her shirt came up a couple of times, just briefly, and this woman actually saw a couple of inches of her tummy. </font>[/QUOTE]Go through the Book of Acts. Read the sermons, (i.e., the services recorded there). Is there anything that remotely resembles what you described--what goes on in Charismatic circles today. The answer comes back a resounding NO!
All of their services centered around the preaching of the Word of God; around doctrine. That was the foremost thing. I doubt if you could properly call any of the services in the New Testament a "worship service." It might do you well to look up and define the word worship. The services were more instructive, and for edification, than for worship.
Take Acts 20:7-14. How much of the time was taken up for preachng?

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
--There was a great emphasis on preaching and teaching the Word of God.
As the narrative continues you note that one of the young men gets tired and falls out of the windews where he was sitting, and is presumed dead. Paul raises him from the dead, and then does what?

Acts 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
--They have a short Communion Service, and then he continues to preach to them a long while, even to the break of day. My guess is that the entire service lasted almost 12 hours, 90 percent of it preaching. That young man was in the "third loft."
Buildings of that day, that had more than one story were not built like today. The upper stories were not that sturdy. The windows were just holes in the wall. The walls were made of mud. The roof of the entire structure was mostly palm leaves of some equivalent thing. The floors inbetween the bottom floor and roof were not sturdy at all. If those believer tried jumping up and down, and "praising God" in the faishion that you suggest, they all would have come down both stories and quite possibly there would have been more than just one death, as well as many injuries. But that is not what they did. The services were very reserved. There is no evidence in the early church that they even had any music (instrumental). That was not introduced into the church until about 300 years later. The early church sang without instrumental music. Charismatics make a mockery of the pattern of service in the early church. Study your Bible and see.

Horrors!

I totally agree. It was horrible.

Well anyway, I didnt have any desire to make a big thing about this...and I didnt...but I sort of thought how I might like to ask her about that.

Something like...

.........hypothetical quote here......

"You expressed your concern and desire to sort of rebuke her for her tummy showing a bit while she jumped, but I'm wondering something.

This happened during praise and worship?

That undoubtedly was the kind of chaos and confusion that Paul was rebuking in 1Cor.14. It is not true worship. You don't find what you describe in the New Testament. There is no Biblical support for it.

And of course thats when we are all supposed to be focusing on praising and worshipping our God

Charismatics focus on the carnality of jumping up and down; on experience. Very little consideration is given to the sound expostion of the Word of God.

So why, instead of that, where you looking around at people around you to make sure they measure up instead of being preoccupied with worshipping your God

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The verse doesn't say worship him in a spirit, or in confusioo, or in the spirit of the world, or in the spirit of the flesh, or in jumping up and down. That is what Paul was speaking against. In fact the worship you describe is not worship at all. Study your Bible and find out what worship really is.

And with that in mind, who do you think God was more pleased with?

Her, in her unabashed worship of God with her tummy showing.

Or you looking around being critical of others during the time set aside to praise and worship our God?

.........end of hypothetical quote........

Of course, I'm not saying this is an exact match with our situation regarding this topic. But it popped into my mind just as I posted my last post, and I thought it sort of similiar

Just some food for thought.

In~His~Grace~

Mike

I think God would have been pleased with a rebuke from a Godly person. These shamless acts need to stop. People need to be taught what true worship is.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

You said, 'Amazed because people accept the fraudulent pushing on the forehead of those that call themselves ministers of the gospel.'

You are living in the earthly realm and not viewing the Bible as relevant as found in I Cor. 12 & 14. God said though the Apostle Paul, 'Grieve not; quench not; resist not the Holy Spirit of God.

You have read on this board of many who have been approached by the Spirit of God in a special way. No one touched me when the Holy Spirit over powered by human--blood, clay and bones. It's not up to you, DHK, and your lame theories about falling in a particular direction. We have all had our smiles about your naivete; let's move on to something other than your 'preacher pushing theory.'

.

Pastor Berrian, Th.D.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

As a minister ordained in the Pentecostal faith, I can attest to the fact that many are 'pushed', so to speak. I also know many are not.

I also know that when one is standing behind someone with their hand on the back, the person in front gets used to the feel of that hand. If that hand is moved away in the slightest, the person naturally will lean toward that hand. That is an old trick used by hypnotists to make people think they can be hypnotized, which makes them more open to power of suggestion.

It is also used in ministry, the power of suggestion. The ministers rally the person, so to speak, by using phrases like, 'Here it comes' and 'Can you feel it?'.

The idea that one has to fall backward is already planted by all the times people see others fall backward, so naturally, one will fall backward unconciously.

As I stated in an earlier post, there is no scriptural evidence of people falling backward as an act of obedience and humility. There are, however, 31 instances of people falling forward to their knees or to their faces.

 

[Ray Berrian]

standing firminChrist,

We do not believe in Hocus Pocus in the north that you describe. We believe the Bible as recorded in I Cor. 12 & 14.

I never thought I would take a 'liking' to handling snakes either. I guess we will have to go south of the Mason-Dixon Line to get into these kinds of, would you say churches or sects.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I daresay many churches that think they are working for the Lord will find they were snake-handlers rather than God's children.

Many handle the Word of God deceitfully by twisting scripture to justify their own vain imaginations and sinful lusts.

So many go to the spiritual cemetarys to learn man's interpretation of what 'thus saith the Lord' and are so indoctrinated with false teaching that they can't see the truth for the scales on their eyes.

[ December 30, 2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: standingfirminChrist ]

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:

You are living in the earthly realm and not viewing the Bible as relevant as found in I Cor. 12 & 14. God said though the Apostle Paul, 'Grieve not; quench not; resist not the Holy Spirit of God.

Yes, I agree totally. I have not yet ascended into heaven. The resurrection has not yet taken place. I am amazed if you are talking to me at the same time inferring you are in the heavenlies. Do you communicate with the dead? Are you in the heavenlies right now? Are you in the presence of Jesus in the flesh? If you happen to see Peter and John for me be sure to say, hi.

Yes, I do live in this earthly realm. I have not my resurrection body.
As far a 1Cor.12-14 is concerned I believe every word of it. So don't make any false accusations. Be careful of that.
Be careful also of accusing me of quenching or grieving the Holy Spiriit. Do you have any hard evidence? These are slanderous accusations that you are making.

You have read on this board of many who have been approached by the Spirit of God in a special way.

A special way does not mean a Biblical way. Satan is a good imitator.

No one touched me when the Holy Spirit over powered by human--blood, clay and bones. It's not up to you, DHK, and your lame theories about falling in a particular direction.

I really couldn't care less which way you fell. Was your experience of God? How do you know? Do you trust in your experience more than in God? Do you trust in your experience more than in the Word of God? Do your base your theology on the Word of God or experience? What comes first in your life: the Word of God, or your experience? If the two conflict with each other, which one is wrong?
Unfortunately, the Charismatic says their experience is right and the Bible is wrong. Do you believe the same way?

We have all had our smiles about your naivete; let's move on to something other than your 'preacher pushing theory.'

Smile away. But for one who thinks that Benny Hinn is a Godly Christian preacher, I know who is doing the smiling. Actually frowning. How sad!
DHK

 

[D28guy]

atestring,

"Mike,
If some people have a problem with a woman showing modest skin,
What would thet think about
David when he danced after the Ark OfTheCovenant was returned?"

Ha ha! Good question!

Blessings,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

"These shamless acts need to stop."

Yep. This buisiness of joyfully and enthusiastically praising and worshipping the living God whom we serve.

Shameful. This must stop!

All of this singing and making melody in your hearts, and dancing unto the Lord, and jumping for joy out of love for our Great God and Savior!

Absolutly disgraceful!

Whew...when some folks arrive in heaven they are going to be so shocked they will want to turn right around and leave as they came!

.........hypothetical quote.........

"Why this is just disgraceful! This cant be heaven! Too much JOY! All this SHOUTING and joyfull PRAISES being lifted to God! Why...its going on 24 hours a day! C'mon Louise, lets get out of here and find heaven! Grrr!"

.........end hypothetical quote.........

Joyfully,

Mike