“Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, ‘Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.’ And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God…” (Rev. 21:9-10, ESV).
Here again John is placed in some kind of special state, carried away, and shown something. Why? He was receiving the continued progressive revelation and subsequent recording of God’s Word.
Additionally, we see Jesus use the exact same terminology when referring to David’s recording of Psalm 110:1. Jesus says:
“He said to them, ‘How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet?’” (Matt. 22:43-44, ESV).
Interestingly, Psalm 110:1 does not say that David was “in the Spirit.” However, Jesus tells that David was in the Spirit when he (David) recorded this verse. So why was David “in the Spirit” here? He was receiving the continued progressive revelation and subsequent recording of God’s Word.
After tracing the use of the phrase, “in the Spirit,” throughout the Bible I must conclude that it is used to describe a specific special state of being in which the OT Prophets and the NT Apostles where placed for the purpose of receiving the continued progressive revelation and subsequent recording of God’s Word.
You admit that when charismatic believers are “slain in the Spirit” they are not receiving the continued progressive revelation of God’s Word.
Therefore, the passage in Rev. 1:10 can not be used as a proof text for the charismatic belief in being “slain in the Spirit” because clearly the text is not referring to the exact same kind of experience. In effect you are comparing apples to oranges with the only connection being that the biblical text and your stated belief both use the word “Spirit.”
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
In vs. 10 first John speaks of being in the Holy Spirit and only down in vs. 11 is there the voice of the Lord. Wherever the Holy Spirit is manifest, there too are to be found the Father and the Son. We do not divide the Essence of God if we are Trinitarian.
I am not dividing the essence of God. I fully hold to the doctrine of traditional orthodox Christian Trinitarian Monotheism. However, the text in question does not say that when John had his Divine vision/experience that the Holy Spirit had
manifested His presence. Going by the uses noted above the phrase “in the Spirit” is used to denote a special state of being in which the OT Prophets and the NT Apostles where placed for the purpose of receiving the continued progressive revelation and subsequent recording of God’s Word. Finally, the text does say that John was in the
manifest presence of the exalted Lord Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
I don't think you want to say that in vs. 17 that Jesus was there and the Holy Spirit and God the Father were having a private conversation together in Heaven until Jesus returned.
Nope… that is not what I am saying. All I am saying is that in Rev. 1:17 while Jesus was speaking to John, God the Father and Holy Spirit did not
manifest their presence. Were all three persons of the Triune Godhead present? Yes. Did John know that all were present? No, not according to the text, he only says that the exalted Lord Jesus Christ was there. Why? Because God the Father and the Holy Spirit did not reveal (manifest) their presence to him.
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
The bottom line is people who fall under the power of God experience the same thing as the Apostle John did in this first chapter of Revelation.
Not according to the biblical texts I quoted above and not according to your own statements. The charismatic believers who experience being “slain in the Spirit”
do not experience the same thing as the Apostle John did in the first chapter of Revelation because they do not receive the continued progressive revelation of God’s Word. Therefore, the experiences are vastly different.
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Some of us Christians have experience this but are not given new revelations of truth. The canon is closed!! And yet if you asked each person their personal experience in God--it might vary; I cannot tell you what other saved people have experienced. That is between them and the Lord.
Nope! None of you have experienced what the Apostle John experienced because you did not receive the continued progressive revelation of God’s Word. Why? Because the canon of Scripture is closed. God is finished progressively revealing Himself and His Word in that manner. You all may have experienced something. However, you have not yet demonstrated, from the text of the Bible, conclusively just what these experiences really were.
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
But to deny this experience is like me telling you that you do not know you are saved.
No one is asking you to deny that you had some kind of experience. All I am saying is that the experience you describe does not line up the experience recorded in the Bible that you are trying to use as a proof text. Therefore, you have to admit that you experienced something, you don’t know for certain based upon the objective truth of the Bible what happened, you
think you know what happened, but you haven’t proven your hypothesis based on the sure testimony of God’s Word.
Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
You know because in some way your life has experienced the result of your personal salvation. Plus, you have your own salvation story to tell saints and sinners alike.
My salvation does not depend on my experience. I would be in real trouble if it did. My salvation is rooted in and depends solely on the fact that Jesus lived, suffered, died, was buried, and rose again according to the Divine plan of His Father so that lost sinners (such as I) who place their faith and trust in Him (Jesus) can be saved. How do I know this? Because it is recorded for me in the objective truth of God’s Word.
[ February 04, 2006, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
Where did you see these people who were controlled by the evil one? Who delivered these people that you have witnessed in such a state of being? 
