Believers must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved

[utilyan]

Great verse. Perfect example of Jesus loving the elect. Thank you. You prove my point.

John 13

34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Name 5 elect on these forums that you love as commanded, The rest are accused reprobates.

 

[MennoSota]

John 13

34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Name 5 elect on these forums that you love as commanded, The rest are accused reprobates.

If they are elect, God loves them and there is no condemnation. If I am elect then there is no condemnation...because...I am in Christ Jesus.
God the Father loves God the Son. Because I am in Christ I am therefore loved.
Utilyan, it is all Christ Jesus and nothing of myself that God the Father loves. If God's love were based upon my own merit, I would be judged unfit and cast into hell. I stand in Christ and in Christ alone.

 

[utilyan]

If they are elect, God loves them and there is no condemnation. If I am elect then there is no condemnation...because...I am in Christ Jesus.
God the Father loves God the Son. Because I am in Christ I am therefore loved.
Utilyan, it is all Christ Jesus and nothing of myself that God the Father loves. If God's love were based upon my own merit, I would be judged unfit and cast into hell. I stand in Christ and in Christ alone.

You sin against Christ's command, You don't love any elect. That's why you can't even name any.

 

[Samuels]

Yep....almost as crazy as warning the church and then saying "but we are convinced of better things of you, things that accompany salvation." Those silly Apostles. Maybe someone should have educated them about how temporary salvation really is, that those things don't really accompany salvation but salvation depends on them.

I explained once again in post #116 about how Paul exhorts, encourages, etc.
However, it appears that you refuse to even consider this explanation.

One reason believers have been given the indwelling Holy Spirit
is so that He could/would teach them all things (spiritual).
Another however, believers must be OPEN to hearing His teachings!

 

[Yeshua1]

I explained once again in post #116 about how Paul exhorts, encourages, etc.
However, it appears that you refuse to even consider this explanation.

One reason believers have been given the indwelling Holy Spirit
is so that He could/would teach them all things (spiritual).
Another however, believers must be OPEN to hearing His teachings!

God stated to us that we were sealed unto the day of the resurrection by the Holy Spirit, no conditions attached!

 

[JonC]

I explained once again in post #116 about how Paul exhorts, encourages, etc.
However, it appears that you refuse to even consider this explanation.

One reason believers have been given the indwelling Holy Spirit
is so that He could/would teach them all things (spiritual).
Another however, believers must be OPEN to hearing His teachings!

I agree. Believers must be open to God. Where we disagree is that I believe God opens people up to Him (rather than men opening themselves up to God). Part of the reason I believe this is because the gospel is to those who are perishing foolishness. We generally do not cling to what we consider to be foolishness. I believe that when we are saved (in the present) we are made to be new creatures. It is impossible to be "unmade" into an old creature.

Another reason I disagree is that I believe conversion involves God revealing truth to us in the form of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Once something is revealed to be true, we cannot go back to thinking it false (we can't hold it as true and false at the same time).

 

[MennoSota]

You sin against Christ's command, You don't love any elect. That's why you can't even name any.

You realize that Satan is the accuser don't you. Look at your comment of judgment against me.
I am secure in God's amazing grace.

 

[MennoSota]

I explained once again in post #116 about how Paul exhorts, encourages, etc.
However, it appears that you refuse to even consider this explanation.

One reason believers have been given the indwelling Holy Spirit
is so that He could/would teach them all things (spiritual).
Another however, believers must be OPEN to hearing His teachings!

The Holy Spirit is active in our sanctification, Samuels.

 

[utilyan]

You realize that Satan is the accuser don't you. Look at your comment of judgment against me.
I am secure in God's amazing grace.

John 13

35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I love everyone. You can't even name 5 people.

I know your not a disciple of Jesus yet, Have a great day!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You sin against Christ's command, You don't love any elect. That's why you can't even name any.

What love are you showing? You blackguard your brothers and sisters in Christ without the slightest compunction.
'Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil.........etc.' Praise God that we're saved by faith and not by love, because otherwise we'd all be in big trouble.

 

[utilyan]

What love are you showing? You blackguard your brothers and sisters in Christ without the slightest compunction.
'Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil.........etc.' Praise God that we're saved by faith and not by love, because otherwise we'd all be in big trouble.

Details Martin, That's why I underline "YET" above. Menno says love one another means only loving the elect.

I have high hopes for you and Menno, I love you both.

If your good conscience disagrees with me that is a very honorable act.

But Brother if you can't even understand what I say, how you going to get scripture right?

You agree with him? that you should only love the elect?

 

[Samuels]

I believe that when we are saved (in the present) we are made to be new creatures.
It is impossible to be "unmade" into an old creature.

The rest of your post is ridiculous to explain to me.

In the NT, these new creatures of yours are warned about
LOSING ETERNAL LIFE ... losing what they had once
GAINING ETERNAL DEATH
falling from grace
drawing back to perdition
falling away from the faith

But, you never respond to this!
Never even want to see the Scriptures!

 

[MennoSota]

Details Martin, That's why I underline "YET" above. Menno says love one another means only loving the elect.

I have high hopes for you and Menno, I love you both.

If your good conscience disagrees with me that is a very honorable act.

But Brother if you can't even understand what I say, how you going to get scripture right?

You agree with him? that you should only love the elect?

Wrong. You have taken our discussion regarding whom God loves and you are now twisting it to claim I said we humans should only love the elect. Either you are willfully lying or you are ignorant about the conversation we have had.

Love doesn't purposely lie and misrepresent like you do. More so, you show an inability to admit you are speaking falsely. The conclusion we must come to is that you are delusional regarding your argument.

 

[MennoSota]

The rest of your post is ridiculous to explain to me.

In the NT, these new creatures of yours are warned about
LOSING ETERNAL LIFE ... losing what they had once
GAINING ETERNAL DEATH
falling from grace
drawing back to perdition
falling away from the faith

But, you never respond to this!
Never even want to see the Scriptures!

Samuels, your interpretation is poor. This has been explained, yet you insist on poor interpretation.

 

[utilyan]

Wrong. You have taken our discussion regarding whom God loves and you are now twisting it to claim I said we humans should only love the elect. Either you are willfully lying or you are ignorant about the conversation we have had.

Love doesn't purposely lie and misrepresent like you do. More so, you show an inability to admit you are speaking falsely. The conclusion we must come to is that you are delusional regarding your argument.

We will see who is talking falsehood.

Easy to clear up. Because we humans are held to the standard of Jesus Christ as our example to follow.

Jesus loves everyone or just elect?

Jesus our perfect example to follow, GOD ALMIGHTY does not only love the elect.

Jesus Christ, GOD ALMIGHTY, Our example to follow Loves All people.


If God hates something you love, then you are a sinning against GOD our allegiance is to God first.

Saying you ought to love something God hates is blasphemy against God.

Put your big boy pants on........ Do you only love the elect?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Details Martin, That's why I underline "YET" above. Menno says love one another means only loving the elect.

I have high hopes for you and Menno, I love you both.

If your good conscience disagrees with me that is a very honorable act.

But Brother if you can't even understand what I say, how you going to get scripture right?

You agree with him? that you should only love the elect?

'Love one another' in the context of John 15:12 means loving one's Christian brothers and sisters, so Menno is quite correct.
However, we are also commanded elsewhere to love our neighbours, and even our enemies.
I can assure you that nothing but love would persuade me to continue to correct your errors. It is an utterly thankless task. I'd as soon stick pins in my eyes. If I didn't love you, and those who might be induced to believe your nonsense, I'd leave you in your ignorance.

But that doesn't save me, and it is certainly nothing to boast about. I am a wretched sinner saved by the grace of God and whatever love I show is a fruit of the Spirit and therefore the gift of God.

'I will not boast in anything-
No gifts, no power, no wisdom;
But I will boast in Jesus Christ-
His death and resurrection.
Why should I gain from His reward?
I cannot give an answer.
But this I know with all my heart:
His wounds have paid my ransom.'

 

[Martin Marprelate]

We will see who is talking falsehood.

Easy to clear up. Because we humans are held to the standard of Jesus Christ as our example to follow.

Jesus loves everyone or just elect?

'.....Having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end [or 'to the uttermost']

Jesus our perfect example to follow, GOD ALMIGHTY does not only love the elect.

Jesus Christ, GOD ALMIGHTY, Our example to follow Loves All people.

Psalm 5:3. 'The LORD has set apart for Himself him who is godly.'
Psalm 6:4-5. 'For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, nor shall evil dwell with You. The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.'
Proverbs 6:16. 'These six the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness that speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren.'

If God hates something you love, then you are a sinning against GOD our allegiance is to God first.

Saying you ought to love something God hates is blasphemy against God.

Put your big boy pants on........ Do you only love the elect?

[pulls big boy pants on]
God knows who His elect are; I do not. I should have no hatred in my heart for anyone, because I might be hating someone whom God loves and will save in His good time. Did the early Christians hate Saul of Tarsus (prior to Acts 9)? God instructs me to love my wife, my neighbour and my enemy. If I try to obey His commands and seek His forgiveness when I fail, I will not go too far wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

What love are you showing? You blackguard your brothers and sisters in Christ without the slightest compunction.
'Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil.........etc.' Praise God that we're saved by faith and not by love, because otherwise we'd all be in big trouble.

That is a good observation, as his anger and ridicule was not listed under the fruit of the Spirit!

 

[Yeshua1]

We will see who is talking falsehood.

Easy to clear up. Because we humans are held to the standard of Jesus Christ as our example to follow.

Jesus loves everyone or just elect?

Jesus our perfect example to follow, GOD ALMIGHTY does not only love the elect.

Jesus Christ, GOD ALMIGHTY, Our example to follow Loves All people.


If God hates something you love, then you are a sinning against GOD our allegiance is to God first.

Saying you ought to love something God hates is blasphemy against God.

Put your big boy pants on........ Do you only love the elect?

God cannot hate anyone, so he must love satan?

 

[Yeshua1]

'.....Having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end [or 'to the uttermost']

Psalm 5:3. 'The LORD has set apart for Himself him who is godly.'
Psalm 6:4-5. 'For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, nor shall evil dwell with You. The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.'
Proverbs 6:16. 'These six the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness that speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren.'

[pulls big boy pants on]
God knows who His elect are; I do not. I should have no hatred in my heart for anyone, because I might be hating someone whom God loves and will save in His good time. Did the early Christians hate Saul of Tarsus (prior to Acts 9)? God instructs me to love my wife, my neighbour and my enemy. If I try to obey His commands and seek His forgiveness when I fail, I will not go too far wrong.

God saved all of us not by his love, but by His Grace!