Believing in Christ and Calling Upon the Name of the Lord

[Silverhair]

and according to the Bible, as Bible believers Know:

King James Bible
"For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

But calvinists do not trust what the bible says as they say they were saved before time began or God has to regenerate/save them so they can believe. How many times have calvinists on this board said God gives them faith. You just have to hope that that faith you think you have is real and not just your wishful thinking.

I am sure you have heard of this guy.
Loraine Boettner
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved.

 

[Silverhair]

I'd like to see these taught from something, "Calvin".

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of
His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

Now I know that you will say ya but what does the rest of the line say. Problem for calvinists is that what the rest says does not matter as this part makes it clear that ALL THINGS, WHATSOEVER COMES TO PASS that does not leave you guys any wiggle room. Although I am sure you will try. You guys shoot yourself in the foot and then complain when someone point it out to you.

Why do you not believe your DoG the WCF or LBCF?

that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.

But as the Lord seals his elect by calling and justification, so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them. Calvin Institutes Bk 3 Chp 21 Sec 7

 

[Alan Gross]

It is to bad that Gill did not just trust what the bible says rather than impose his theology on the bible.

To just make a blanket comment that what you do not agree with is error is a waste on time. Show what I said was error. I used your own theology to point out the errors you hold.

I showed you the correct, Divine, Interpretation, where, " He desires that all do so 1Ti 2:3-4" can not possibly be meant of "all men, without exception", and that philosophy needs to be done away with, in the false theology it tries to produce.

The correct, Divine, Interpretation is that I Tim 2:1,2 has, "1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty."

THAT GIVES US The One and Only possible interpretation of, "3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

The meaning of, "all men", in I Tim 2:4, is "all kinds, or sorts, of men". Period.

There are not "Two" different "interpretations, one for the Bible believer and one for the carnal flesh.

 

[Alan Gross]

But calvinists do not trust what the bible says as they say they were saved before time began or God has to regenerate/save them so they can believe. How many times have calvinists on this board said God gives them faith. You just have to hope that that faith you think you have is real and not just your wishful thinking.

I am sure you have heard of this guy.
Loraine Boettner
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved.

This is Bible-like:

"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved.

 

[Alan Gross]

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of
His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

Now I know that you will say ya but what does the rest of the line say. Problem for calvinists is that what the rest says does not matter as this part makes it clear that ALL THINGS, WHATSOEVER COMES TO PASS that does not leave you guys any wiggle room. Although I am sure you will try. You guys shoot yourself in the foot and then complain when someone point it out to you.

Why do you not believe your DoG the WCF or LBCF?

that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.

But as the Lord seals his elect by calling and justification, so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them. Calvin Institutes Bk 3 Chp 21 Sec 7

This is perfectly Bible-like, as to The Revealed Manifold Wisdom and Whole Counsel of God.

that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.

But as the Lord seals his elect by calling and justification, so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them. Calvin Institutes Bk 3 Chp 21 Sec 7

This is "the Bible" on the subject of, "the Rejection of Some Angels and Some Men".

A LOT of Bible verses that Bible believers believe.

John Gill: Doctrinal Divinity - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Just read down and see the verses quoted and the Wording next to them, i.e.,

“hath obtained it”, righteousness and eternal life; “and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:5, 7).

"the rest" are, "those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment."

 

[Alan Gross]

I understand that this is a hard concept for you to grasp but give it a try. Paraphrase, look it up.
As the bible says repeatedly we are saved by the grace of God because we believe in His son, Christ Jesus

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

You go to the store FOR a loaf of bread.

It doesn't BECOME a loaf of bread because you go to the store.

Your 'salvation' is dependent on the misinterpretation of so many prepositions?

I would like to see Jesus and His Blood as a part of the 'salvation' testimony of a 'believer'.

And, 'sin', like that has to be CONVICTED OF, by The Holy Spirit THROUGH the TEACHING of THE WORD of GOD;

Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[percho]

Where you put, "-- <second coming>", in would put, "The Current Age of Jesus' churches".

I believe:

Jesus died 14 day of the first month and after three days was raised out of the dead, remained on earth forty days and then ascended to the right hand of the Father, Ten days later, fifty days on the morrow after the Sabbath, after the Passover death, God began pouring our his Spirit on the called out ones, the church, Zion. That was on the day of first-fruit, a holy convocation day, First-fruit of the Spirit indwelling one. The Spirit of adoption, the redemption of the body. The Spirit of that will change one from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible.

One should ask oneself, why, first-fruit of the Spirit? Why is fruit preceded by, first? Does it imply likeness of same at a later time?

Acts 15:1-14 speaks of God calling from Judah and the nations (Gentiles if you will) a people for his name ( or for his name's sake).

The next day of, a holy convocation, is the day of trumpets.
1 Cor 15:50-52 And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:

What takes place on a holy convocation day of trumpets?

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joel 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly

I believe that to be the coming of the Lord, see also Acts 15:16,17 God is presently taking out of the nations a people for his name awaiting the day of trumpets.

Acts 15:16,17 After this (taking out of the nations a people for his name) I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Known from ages is to the God the works of Him.


I believe the plan was laid out before the foundation of the world and even maybe before, In beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[Silverhair]

I showed you the correct, Divine, Interpretation, where, " He desires that all do so 1Ti 2:3-4" can not possibly be meant of "all men, without exception", and that philosophy needs to be done away with, in the false theology it tries to produce.

The correct, Divine, Interpretation is that I Tim 2:1,2 has, "1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty."

THAT GIVES US The One and Only possible interpretation of, "3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

The meaning of, "all men", in I Tim 2:4, is "all kinds, or sorts, of men". Period.

There are not "Two" different "interpretations, one for the Bible believer and one for the carnal flesh.

Context does not support your Interpretation of these verses but when did that ever stop a calvinist.

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

I realize that your view is controlled by your deterministic view so you will have a hard time understanding the truth of scripture. "all men" actually means all men and when it says He gave Himself as a ransom for all it actually means just that. You need to learn how to read the text not read into the text.

Alan you really should not call yourself one who is of carnal flesh as Christ died to cover your sins and will save you if you will repent and trust in Him for salvation. I will help you understand the bible if you would like.

 

[Silverhair]

This is Bible-like:

You do like to play silly games don't you. The fact you do not engage with the text of the bible just shows how vapid your view really is.

 

[Silverhair]

This is perfectly Bible-like, as to The Revealed Manifold Wisdom and Whole Counsel of God.



This is "the Bible" on the subject of, "the Rejection of Some Angels and Some Men".

A LOT of Bible verses that Bible believers believe.

John Gill: Doctrinal Divinity - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Just read down and see the verses quoted and the Wording next to them, i.e.,

“hath obtained it”, righteousness and eternal life; “and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:5, 7).

"the rest" are, "those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment."

It is obvious that you do not really trust the bible as you keep quoting Gill which is not a reliable source to say the least. Why do you trust a man rather than the bible?

 

[Silverhair]

You go to the store FOR a loaf of bread.

It doesn't BECOME a loaf of bread because you go to the store.

Your 'salvation' is dependent on the misinterpretation of so many prepositions?

I would like to see Jesus and His Blood as a part of the 'salvation' testimony of a 'believer'.

And, 'sin', like that has to be CONVICTED OF, by The Holy Spirit THROUGH the TEACHING of THE WORD of GOD;

Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Well you are making small steps in the right direction. Christ's blood does not save, it covers our sins. We are justified/saved by God because of our faith.

 

[percho]

Eph 2:8
for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,
To the for grace ye are having been saved, through the faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift.

and to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed; He doth not say, 'And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, 'And to thy seed,' which is Christ;
Why, then, the law? on account of the transgressions it was added, till the seed might come to which the promise hath been made, having been set in order through messengers in the hand of a mediator --
Gal 3:16,19

Thoughts. Saved? From, out of what?

Titus 1:2 Darby in hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time,

Here is a very big question for all.

Is there any, substance and or evidence, of the promise being fulfilled?

 

[Alan Gross]

Context does not support your Interpretation of these verses but when did that ever stop a calvinist.

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

I realize that your view is controlled by your deterministic view so you will have a hard time understanding the truth of scripture. "all men" actually means all men and when it says He gave Himself as a ransom for all it actually means just that. You need to learn how to read the text not read into the text.

Alan you really should not call yourself one who is of carnal flesh as Christ died to cover your sins and will save you if you will repent and trust in Him for salvation. I will help you understand the bible if you would like.

The reason he talks about all kinds of men, including "a Ransome", for all sorts of men (as the context clearly shows to a Bible believer (for kings and all who are in authority), is because The Jews, previously, DID NOT Pray for anyone but themselves. Now, they are even Commanded to pray for Gentiles, which they never would have done before. That is the context and meaning.


1 Timothy 2

In this chapter the apostle exhorts to prayer for all sorts of men

be made for all men; not only for all the saints, for all the churches of Christ, and, ministers of the Gospel; nor only for near relations and friends, according to the flesh; but for all the inhabitants of the country and city in which men dwell, the peace and prosperity of which are to be prayed for; yea, for enemies, and such as reproach, persecute, and despitefully use the saints, even for all sorts of men, Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, high and low, bond and free, good men and bad men: for it cannot be understood of every individual that has been, is, or shall be in the world; millions of men are dead and gone, for whom prayer is not to be made; many in hell, to whom it would be of no service; and many in heaven, who stand in no need of it; nor is prayer to be made for such who have sinned the sin unto death, 1 John 5:16 besides, giving of thanks, as well as prayers, are to be made for all men; but certainly the meaning is not, that thanks should be given for wicked men, for persecutors, and particularly for a persecuting Nero, or for heretics, and false teachers, such as Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom the apostle had delivered to Satan. But the words must be understood of men of all sorts, of every rank and quality, as the following verse shows.

 

[Alan Gross]

Well you are making small steps in the right direction. Christ's blood does not save, it covers our sins. We are justified/saved by God because of our faith.

So, you don't have a clue as to "How God Saves a soul".

Interesting.

Tells me all I need to know.

You think, reasoning with a mind affected by the Fall of Adam,
that "Faith-Life-Quickening-from-the-dead" is something you possess.

No, you don't.

That is an Eternally Fatal Error.

 

[percho]

Through, the faith.

Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through (the) death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil -- Heb 2:14

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from (out of) death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, ----- ? unto death? Heb 5:7,8
9 and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

What was, through the faith, that brought salvation? That introduced the grace of life?


Was it, have faith of God?

Everybody just keep believing you save yourself.

 

[Alan Gross]

https://fmbcoftc.com/wp-content/upl...vey-The-Lord-knoweth-them-that-are-His_Lt.mp3

 

[Silverhair]

The reason he talks about all kinds of men, including "a Ransome", for all sorts of men (as the context clearly shows to a Bible believer (for kings and all who are in authority), is because The Jews, previously, DID NOT Pray for anyone but themselves. Now, they are even Commanded to pray for Gentiles, which they never would have done before. That is the context and meaning.


1 Timothy 2

In this chapter the apostle exhorts to prayer for all sorts of men

be made for all men; not only for all the saints, for all the churches of Christ, and, ministers of the Gospel; nor only for near relations and friends, according to the flesh; but for all the inhabitants of the country and city in which men dwell, the peace and prosperity of which are to be prayed for; yea, for enemies, and such as reproach, persecute, and despitefully use the saints, even for all sorts of men, Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, high and low, bond and free, good men and bad men: for it cannot be understood of every individual that has been, is, or shall be in the world; millions of men are dead and gone, for whom prayer is not to be made; many in hell, to whom it would be of no service; and many in heaven, who stand in no need of it; nor is prayer to be made for such who have sinned the sin unto death, 1 John 5:16 besides, giving of thanks, as well as prayers, are to be made for all men; but certainly the meaning is not, that thanks should be given for wicked men, for persecutors, and particularly for a persecuting Nero, or for heretics, and false teachers, such as Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom the apostle had delivered to Satan. But the words must be understood of men of all sorts, of every rank and quality, as the following verse shows.

The bible, not your commentator, is the authority. Context does not support your errant view. You are letting a man tell you what to see when you should be trusting the bible. The bible exhorts prayer for all men which would logically include Kings and those in authority. You work to hard to avoid the obvious.

 

[Alan Gross]

The bible, not your commentator, is the authority. Context does not support your errant view. You are letting a man tell you what to see when you should be trusting the bible. The bible exhorts prayer for all men which would logically include Kings and those in authority. You work to hard to avoid the obvious.

The bible exhorts prayer for all men which would logically include Kings and those in authority.

and to be saved, etc. ( not "all men without exception" to be saved,...OR....ALL men, women,
boys, and girls would BE SAVED/ and they are not).

"all men without exception" to be saved, in these passages, is an impossibly false 'interpretation'
and should be highly weighed as to its impossibility in any other Scriptures, also.

 

[Silverhair]

So, you don't have a clue as to "How God Saves a soul".

Interesting.

Tells me all I need to know.

You think, reasoning with a mind affected by the Fall of Adam,
that "Faith-Life-Quickening-from-the-dead" is something you possess.

No, you don't.

That is an Eternally Fatal Error.

Therein lays the error of calvinism. Calvinism requires that you be totally clueless about anything and just respond to the strings that God pulls. How you can have such a low view of God is astounding. You claim to trust the bible but it has to fit within the calvinist philosophy or you reject what it says. I had been told that calvinism was actually a gnostic philosophy which from what I have seen on this board I would have to say is true. Gnostic's think they possess a superior understand of what ever they hold to, in this case the bible, but that is only because they tend to exist in an echo chamber environment. Alan if you really want to understand the bible you will have to remove yourself from that echo chamber. As I said before I am willing to help you where I can.

 

[AustinC]

Yep, we should pray, intercede, and thank God for all people, including kings, governor's, and all people.

Why?

So that Christians can live quiet, peaceful, Godly, and dignified lives (as opposed to being persecuted by those in authority).

*1 Timothy 2:1-2*

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

Notice that universal atonement is not suggested at all in these first two verses. Therefore attempting to bring in universal atonement in the next three verses is just awful hermeneutics.

The conundrum of general atonement proponents still remains and they refuse to be honest with their conundrum.