As I feared, no response to my inquiry.
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Believing Into Christ based on God crediting your faith as righteousness
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Again, addressing my behavior and derailing discussion of the thread topic.
John 3:18
“The one who believes into Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed into the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What aspects of Christ's attributes are in view here? As Lord and Savior!
If you review Romans 4:19-22 you will see that Abraham actually believed God would fulfill His promise (that he would be the father of many nations, Romans 4:18) which resulted in God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness.
And, if you continue reading, Romans 4:23 and following, you see the action of God crediting faith as righteousness was not only for Abraham's benefit, but also for the future benefit of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead, and believe Jesus was sacrificed for our wrongdoings, and believe His sacrifice provided justification into eternal life. Or in other words, the name of Jesus Christ, or as John put it, the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What might it take to have our faith, as flawed as it may be, to be credited as righteousness?
Do we need to understand and believe all the right things and none of the wrong things?
Do we need to be so committed to Christ we are willing to physically die for Him?
Did Peter understand Christs gospel and the Law of Liberty?
Was Peter's love of Christ "agapao" (sacrificial) or "phileo" (relational)?
God knows our heart, and knows the believer from the phony.
“The one who believes into Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed into the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What aspects of Christ's attributes are in view here? As Lord and Savior!
If you review Romans 4:19-22 you will see that Abraham actually believed God would fulfill His promise (that he would be the father of many nations, Romans 4:18) which resulted in God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness.
And, if you continue reading, Romans 4:23 and following, you see the action of God crediting faith as righteousness was not only for Abraham's benefit, but also for the future benefit of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead, and believe Jesus was sacrificed for our wrongdoings, and believe His sacrifice provided justification into eternal life. Or in other words, the name of Jesus Christ, or as John put it, the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What might it take to have our faith, as flawed as it may be, to be credited as righteousness?
Do we need to understand and believe all the right things and none of the wrong things?
Do we need to be so committed to Christ we are willing to physically die for Him?
Did Peter understand Christs gospel and the Law of Liberty?
Was Peter's love of Christ "agapao" (sacrificial) or "phileo" (relational)?
God knows our heart, and knows the believer from the phony.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If you do not want the discussion derailed then just tell them what they keep asking for.
What version of the bible uses "into" rather than "in".
Your continued refusal just adds fuel to the fire @Van and it makes your position look weak and made up.
I know what the Greek says but have yet to find a bible version that translates it as you say the bible does.
The person believes "in" Jesus they cannot believe "into" Jesus as only God can place them in Jesus.
Yet another post addressing my behavior and offering nothing concerning the topic.
link provided in the thread!!!!!
John 3:18
“The one who believes into Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed into the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What aspects of Christ's attributes are in view here? As Lord and Savior!
If you review Romans 4:19-22 you will see that Abraham actually believed God would fulfill His promise (that he would be the father of many nations, Romans 4:18) which resulted in God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness.
And, if you continue reading, Romans 4:23 and following, you see the action of God crediting faith as righteousness was not only for Abraham's benefit, but also for the future benefit of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead, and believe Jesus was sacrificed for our wrongdoings, and believe His sacrifice provided justification into eternal life. Or in other words, the name of Jesus Christ, or as John put it, the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What might it take to have our faith, as flawed as it may be, to be credited as righteousness?
Do we need to understand and believe all the right things and none of the wrong things?
Do we need to be so committed to Christ we are willing to physically die for Him?
Did Peter understand Christs gospel and the Law of Liberty?
Was Peter's love of Christ "agapao" (sacrificial) or "phileo" (relational)?
God knows our heart, and knows the believer from the phony.
Scripture for All Greek Interlinear of John 3:16 phrase "believeth in Him."
Pisteuwn
isteuwn
pisteuOn
G4100
vp Pres Act Nom Sg m
one-BELIEVING
one-believing
eis
eis
G1519
Prep
INTO
auton
auton
G846
pp Acc Sg m
Him
Pay no attention to those pretending to be so stupid they did not know John uses the phrase "believes into Him or Christ" repeatedly. Any actual study of the verses cited would validate the truth.
Pisteuwn
isteuwn
pisteuOn
G4100
vp Pres Act Nom Sg m
one-BELIEVING
one-believing
eis
eis
G1519
Prep
INTO
auton
auton
G846
pp Acc Sg m
Him
Pay no attention to those pretending to be so stupid they did not know John uses the phrase "believes into Him or Christ" repeatedly. Any actual study of the verses cited would validate the truth.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Just another refusal by @Van to provide the bible version that supports his view.
If you cannot provide that bible version just say you cannot do so rather than making yourself look foolish by continuing to dance around the issue.
I have yet to find one bible that uses the text as you say it should be used
Each and every bible version based on the TR, MT and CT presents John's phrase "believers into Him or into Christ many times. I provided a Reverse Interlinear translation, which you were too dishonest to accept. Your posts are worthless falsehoods.
Last edited:
Take a look at Mark 9:42, which says "little ones who believe "in (into) Me." The "into Me" is found in the TR text, hence in the KJV and NKJV, but is not in some other translation or is put in italics to indicate an addition for clarification. It would not be sound to use this verse to support the idea that Jesus said believe into Me on several occasions. However, in addition to John, we find the curious phrase in Matthew 18:6: "... little ones who believe into Me..."
The idea of believing into Me is that the person's faith is credited by God as righteousness, and on that basis the person is spiritually transferred out of the realm of darkness and into Christ. Thereafter, they are "in Christ." Positionally Sanctified! They are "in Christ" and "Christ is in them" because they have been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. And so, just as John wrote, they are in Christ AND Christ "abides" in them. Thus they can accomplish great things just as John 14:12 says:
The idea of believing into Me is that the person's faith is credited by God as righteousness, and on that basis the person is spiritually transferred out of the realm of darkness and into Christ. Thereafter, they are "in Christ." Positionally Sanctified! They are "in Christ" and "Christ is in them" because they have been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. And so, just as John wrote, they are in Christ AND Christ "abides" in them. Thus they can accomplish great things just as John 14:12 says:
John 14:12 NASB
“Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in(eis=into) Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I am going to the Father.
We find Christ using the phrase "believes into Me" several times. Take a look at John 11:26, which of course presents the same idea as in John 3:16.
For supposed Bible students to claim this turn of phrase is news is beyond me, I cannot believe none of the Calvinists will admit to this obvious truth. Not one, folks!
WPNT
John 3:18
18 The one believing into Him is not condemned, but the one not believing has already been condemned, because he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 14:12
12 “Most assuredly I say to you, the one believing into me, he too will do the works that I do; in fact he will do greater works than these, because I am going to my Father.
Matthew 18:6
6 but whoever should cause one of these little ones who believe into me to fall, it would be better for him if a large millstone were hung on his neck and he were drowned in the depth of the sea!
For supposed Bible students to claim this turn of phrase is news is beyond me, I cannot believe none of the Calvinists will admit to this obvious truth. Not one, folks!
WPNT
John 3:18
18 The one believing into Him is not condemned, but the one not believing has already been condemned, because he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 14:12
12 “Most assuredly I say to you, the one believing into me, he too will do the works that I do; in fact he will do greater works than these, because I am going to my Father.
Matthew 18:6
6 but whoever should cause one of these little ones who believe into me to fall, it would be better for him if a large millstone were hung on his neck and he were drowned in the depth of the sea!
Matthew 18:6
Diaglott(i) 6 Who but ever may insnare one of the little-ones these, of the believing into me, it is appropriate to him, that should be hung a millstone upper on the neck of him, and he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.
Question? How many different versions indicating "eis" rather than "en" was used to convey positional sanctification before any Calvinist will admit to this truth? Answer, I could list a dozen they will still deny God's word.
Returning to the actual topic of the thread:
John 3:18
“The one who believes into Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed into the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What aspects of Christ's attributes are in view here? As Lord and Savior!
If you review Romans 4:19-22 you will see that Abraham actually believed God would fulfill His promise (that he would be the father of many nations, Romans 4:18) which resulted in God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness.
And, if you continue reading, Romans 4:23 and following, you see the action of God crediting faith as righteousness was not only for Abraham's benefit, but also for the future benefit of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead, and believe Jesus was sacrificed for our wrongdoings, and believe His sacrifice provided justification into eternal life. Or in other words, the name of Jesus Christ, or as John put it, the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What might it take to have our faith, as flawed as it may be, to be credited as righteousness?
Do we need to understand and believe all the right things and none of the wrong things?
Do we need to be so committed to Christ we are willing to physically die for Him?
Did Peter understand Christs gospel and the Law of Liberty?
Was Peter's love of Christ "agapao" (sacrificial) or "phileo" (relational)?
God knows our heart, and knows the believer from the phony. And only God transfers those whose faith He credits as righteousness into Christ! This is the doctrine of Positional Sanctification, a fundamental of the gospel.
Diaglott(i) 6 Who but ever may insnare one of the little-ones these, of the believing into me, it is appropriate to him, that should be hung a millstone upper on the neck of him, and he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.
Question? How many different versions indicating "eis" rather than "en" was used to convey positional sanctification before any Calvinist will admit to this truth? Answer, I could list a dozen they will still deny God's word.
Returning to the actual topic of the thread:
John 3:18
“The one who believes into Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed into the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What aspects of Christ's attributes are in view here? As Lord and Savior!
If you review Romans 4:19-22 you will see that Abraham actually believed God would fulfill His promise (that he would be the father of many nations, Romans 4:18) which resulted in God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness.
And, if you continue reading, Romans 4:23 and following, you see the action of God crediting faith as righteousness was not only for Abraham's benefit, but also for the future benefit of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead, and believe Jesus was sacrificed for our wrongdoings, and believe His sacrifice provided justification into eternal life. Or in other words, the name of Jesus Christ, or as John put it, the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What might it take to have our faith, as flawed as it may be, to be credited as righteousness?
Do we need to understand and believe all the right things and none of the wrong things?
Do we need to be so committed to Christ we are willing to physically die for Him?
Did Peter understand Christs gospel and the Law of Liberty?
Was Peter's love of Christ "agapao" (sacrificial) or "phileo" (relational)?
God knows our heart, and knows the believer from the phony. And only God transfers those whose faith He credits as righteousness into Christ! This is the doctrine of Positional Sanctification, a fundamental of the gospel.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Van if every translation had those words then you would be able to provide the quote from the translation which you have not done.
(ABPs+/) The oneG3588 trustingG4100 inG1519 himG1473 is notG3756 judged;G2919 but the oneG3588 G1161 notG3361 trustingG4100 alreadyG2235 has been judged,G2919 forG3754 he trusts notG3361 G4100 inG1519 theG3588 nameG3686 of theG3588 only bornG3439 sonG5207 G3588 of God.G2316
(BSB 1.2) Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of Godone and only Son.
(EWB-CB) He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NASB 95) "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NET+) The one who believes in him is not condemned.N41 The one who does not believe has been condemnedN42 already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and onlyN43 Son of God.
(NIV 02) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
(NKJV-rs/) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NLTs/) "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in Him. But anyone who does not believe in Him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son.
(NRSV/) Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
(UASV+) The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I know what the Greek says and you have chosen to use "εἰς" as into but it can be translated as "Into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among." It depends upon what word would best fit the context.
You have chosen to use the words "into" but then you go so far as to disparage those that disagree with your view.
As I said before, we can believe in Christ but only God can place us into Christ.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Once again an off topic pointless post. I said presented, referring to the Reverse Interlinear of that translation has "into" and you falsely claim I said the translation had "into" as the translation. False and you knew it was false which is worse.
I disparage those who claim John did not use the phrase believes into Him or Christ many times.
And yes of course only God can transfer us into Christ, Col 1:13. Duh
The doctrine of Positional Sanctification is not a new or out of the mainstream view, it is basic and fundamental gospel doctrine.
You have been unmasked Sir, everyone knows you chose not to answer.
Folks, here is the deal:
1) God puts those of His choosing spiritually into Christ. Colossians 1:13
2) This transfer is referred to in various ways using words like, baptized into, or called into, or given to, in addition to "believes into."
3) The issue is "on what basis does God choose to set (sanctify) a person in (into) Christ? 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 both teach the basis is faith or belief in the truth, as the individuals love God and are rich in faith.
4) The follow on issue is who decides whether a person has "saving faith?" Romans Chapter 4 teaches it is God who either credits a person's faith as righteousness, or not. This action by God is also denied by those trying to derail the thread.
1) God puts those of His choosing spiritually into Christ. Colossians 1:13
2) This transfer is referred to in various ways using words like, baptized into, or called into, or given to, in addition to "believes into."
3) The issue is "on what basis does God choose to set (sanctify) a person in (into) Christ? 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 both teach the basis is faith or belief in the truth, as the individuals love God and are rich in faith.
4) The follow on issue is who decides whether a person has "saving faith?" Romans Chapter 4 teaches it is God who either credits a person's faith as righteousness, or not. This action by God is also denied by those trying to derail the thread.
“The one who believes into Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed into the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
What aspects of Christ's attributes are in view here? As Lord and Savior!
If you review Romans 4:19-22 you will see that Abraham actually believed God would fulfill His promise (that he would be the father of many nations, Romans 4:18) which resulted in God crediting Abraham's faith as righteousness.
And, if you continue reading, Romans 4:23 and following, you see the action of God crediting faith as righteousness was not only for Abraham's benefit, but also for the future benefit of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead, and believe Jesus was sacrificed for our wrongdoings, and believe His sacrifice provided justification into eternal life. Or in other words, the name of Jesus Christ, or as John put it, the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
The gospel of Christ!
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 WPNT
13 Now we are obligated to always give thanks to God about you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you into salvation, through sanctification of spirit and belief in truth, 14 to which He called you through our gospel, so as to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The concept of being chosen by being set apart spiritually into Christ based on God crediting our faith as righteousness is the concept being denied by these disparaging posters seeking to change the subject!
But Positional Sanctification is bedrock gospel!
13 Now we are obligated to always give thanks to God about you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you into salvation, through sanctification of spirit and belief in truth, 14 to which He called you through our gospel, so as to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The concept of being chosen by being set apart spiritually into Christ based on God crediting our faith as righteousness is the concept being denied by these disparaging posters seeking to change the subject!
But Positional Sanctification is bedrock gospel!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Van do you forget what you have posted?
From your OP post
“The one who believes into Him is not judged;
Your the one that keeps claiming "εἰς" has to be translated as "into" and you have been shown a number of bible translations that do not do so. You have also been shown that "εἰς" can be translated as "in".
So this is not off topic.
It would seem that you do not like having someone disagree with your ideas and show you your errors.