BF&M 2000 vs 1963

[go2church]

No, rather that they BOTH are the perfect revealtion of God to us, its just that Jesus IS Gid in the human flesh , so he revealed perfectly to us who God is, while the originals Perfectly gave us the thoughts He had for us!

We worship JUST the creator/saviour, but BOTH equally in the sense of perfect!

Not all revelation is the same. Jesus is the ultimate revelation, no statement should leave the possibility or implication that anything could be or is equal to Jesus.

I don't need a bible, though I'm grateful that i have one. I die in my sins without Jesus.

 

[Revmitchell]

Trying to separate the Bible from God's words is very weird and completely unbiblical.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Then who determines what Baptist principles are?

Baptist principles are those principles held by all Baptists, whether liberal, conservative, or moderate.

The BAPTIST acrostic is one summary of such:

B – Biblical authority: the Bible is the sole authority for all faith and practice
A – Autonomy of the local church: self governing
P – Priesthood of believers: every believer has access to the Lord Jesus Christ
T – Two church officers – pastors and deacons
I – Individual soul liberty
S – Saved church membership
T – Two church ordinances : baptism and the Lord’s Supper
S – Separation of church and state

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Hi Thomas, I'm trying to reconcile the following:




What I'm reading here: "There SHOULD BE a standard by which Baptists agree with in order to work together, and those who don't hold to such Baptist principles should leave."



What I'm reading here: "It is UN-BAPTIST to require someone to conform to some standard in order to work together."

THESE SEEM CONTRADICTORY....what am I missing?

Baptists should hold to Baptist principles. Coercion is not one of them. Neither is making a confession an "instrument of doctrinal accountability".

 

[Revmitchell]

Baptists should hold to Baptist principles. Coercion is not one of them. Neither is making a confession an "instrument of doctrinal accountability".

Oh, well here is a good place for you


http://www.thefellowship.info/

 

[Salty]

Baptist principles are those principles held by all Baptists, whether liberal, conservative, or moderate.

The BAPTIST acrostic is one summary of such:

B – Biblical authority: the Bible is the sole authority for all faith and practice
A – Autonomy of the local church: self governing
P – Priesthood of believers: every believer has access to the Lord Jesus Christ
T – Two church officers – pastors and deacons
I – Individual soul liberty
S – Saved church membership
T – Two church ordinances : baptism and the Lord’s Supper
S – Separation of church and state

Thomas,
Do you know who came up with that acrostic?

and why is it Eternal Security is not on that list?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Thomas,
Do you know who came up with that acrostic?

and why is it Eternal Security is not on that list?

Eternal security is not on it because not all Baptists believe in that. The first Baptists, in England, did not.

 

[Yeshua1]

Trying to separate the Bible from God's words is very weird and completely unbiblical.

the Bible is the revelation of God to us in written form, while jesus is THE Revelation to God of Himself in flesh form!

BOTH are perfect in what they expressed to us what God is like, how he thinks and acts, but oNLY jesus is to be worshipped, NO bible version is to get revered like that, for that would become idolatry!

 

[go2church]

Trying to separate the Bible from God's words is very weird and completely unbiblical.

Not sure what you're saying here, clarification please?

 

[go2church]

the Bible is the revelation of God to us in written form, while jesus is THE Revelation to God of Himself in flesh form!

BOTH are perfect in what they expressed to us what God is like, how he thinks and acts, but oNLY jesus is to be worshipped, NO bible version is to get revered like that, for that would become idolatry!

You keep trying to make the bible and Jesus both equal in their level of revelation, but they aren't. The mere fact that we worship one (Jesus) and not the other (the bible) is a clear indication that they are not the same and that one is "higher" then the other.

The bible is a RECORD of God revealing himself. The revelation humanity had been waiting for is Jesus, not the bible.

 

[Salty]

Eternal security is not on it because not all Baptists believe in that. The first Baptists, in England, did not.

I contend if you do not believe in eternal security, you should no longer call yourself a baptist.

Well you answered 1 out of 2 questions = 50%. And 50 % in any class is failing.

Who (not an acrostic*) determines what ALL Baptists believe?

Questions is still opened - who came up with that acrostic?

 

[go2church]

I just checked with the Freewill and General Baptists, even though you don't like it, they still consider themselves Baptist.

 

[Salty]

I just checked with the Freewill and General Baptists, even though you don't like it, they still consider themselves Baptist.

and the same goes for Westboro Baptist church

 

[Salty]

I contend if you do not believe in eternal security, you should no longer call yourself a baptist.

I just checked with the Freewill and General Baptists, even though you don't like it, they still consider themselves Baptist.

Actually, I was just being a bit facetious

and the same goes for Westboro Baptist church

On this, seriously, I am ashamed they call themselves a Baptist church

 

[Salty]

The BAPTIST acrostic is one summary of such:

B – Biblical authority: the Bible is the sole authority for all faith and practice

This would leave out many "Baptist" churches, (especially IFB) as they have rules against drinking,smoking, dancing, ect - none of which are forbidden by Scripture

A – Autonomy of the local church: self governing

Many Baptist churches are going to Elder rule - does that mean they are no longer self governing -?

P – Priesthood of believers: every believer has access to the Lord Jesus Christ

1) If so- then why does only the pastor do the baptizing and serve communion?
2) So, which is it? Priesthood of the believer or priesthood of believers?

T – Two church officers – pastors and deacons

Actually, I do not believe the deacons are officers - only servants. - So I guess I am not a Baptist

I – Individual soul liberty

We have individual soul liberty as long as we do what we are told

S – Saved church membership

Well, Ok this one might make it

T – Two church ordinances : baptism and the Lord’s Supper

Some Baptists believe that foot washing is an ordinance - so that makes three....

– Separation of church and state

There are a lot of Baptists that want to see the USBA - The United States of Baptist America
So I guess they are not true Baptists

Here is the Bottom line
The BF&M is what Southern Baptists believe.
No one is forcing you to accept it. If I remember correctly you said you are no longer SBC.
If you disagree with the BF&M - it is probably best you left the convention.

 

[Yeshua1]

You keep trying to make the bible and Jesus both equal in their level of revelation, but they aren't. The mere fact that we worship one (Jesus) and not the other (the bible) is a clear indication that they are not the same and that one is "higher" then the other.

The bible is a RECORD of God revealing himself. The revelation humanity had been waiting for is Jesus, not the bible.

Do BOTH reveal something of God to us? Are BOTH perfect in what they reveal to us about Him?

revelation in my terminology here would be as to the truth/perfection of what it is trying to
tell us about God, but jesus is the LAST and fullest revlation to us!

 

[go2church]

Do BOTH reveal something of God to us? Are BOTH perfect in what they reveal to us about Him?

revelation in my terminology here would be as to the truth/perfection of what it is trying to
tell us about God, but jesus is the LAST and fullest revlation to us!

I would quibble, because Jesus doesn't reveal something of God to us, he is God. As to perfect, Jesus is perfect and the bible we have is trustworthy. Perfect can only apply to the originals which we don't have, so what we have is true and trustworthy, reliable.

Revelation as it pertains to Jesus is more specific then just revealing something of God.

 

[Revmitchell]

Do BOTH reveal something of God to us? Are BOTH perfect in what they reveal to us about Him?

revelation in my terminology here would be as to the truth/perfection of what it is trying to
tell us about God, but jesus is the LAST and fullest revlation to us!

Liberals do not like to be held to any idea about the word being perfect because then they would have to change their doctrine.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I contend if you do not believe in eternal security, you should no longer call yourself a baptist.

Well you answered 1 out of 2 questions = 50%. And 50 % in any class is failing.

Who (not an acrostic*) determines what ALL Baptists believe?

Questions is still opened - who came up with that acrostic?

The first Baptists, the original Baptists, did not believe in eternal security. Those who did came later. So, you bigoted, uninformed statement is really quite silly and ridiculous.

You really didn't deserve that much of an answer, but you needed correction. As for the rest of it, find out yourself.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

This would leave out many "Baptist" churches, (especially IFB) as they have rules against drinking,smoking, dancing, ect - none of which are forbidden by Scripture

Many Baptist churches are going to Elder rule - does that mean they are no longer self governing -?


1) If so- then why does only the pastor do the baptizing and serve communion?
2) So, which is it? Priesthood of the believer or priesthood of believers?


Actually, I do not believe the deacons are officers - only servants. - So I guess I am not a Baptist


We have individual soul liberty as long as we do what we are told


Well, Ok this one might make it


Some Baptists believe that foot washing is an ordinance - so that makes three....


There are a lot of Baptists that want to see the USBA - The United States of Baptist America
So I guess they are not true Baptists

Here is the Bottom line
The BF&M is what Southern Baptists believe.
No one is forcing you to accept it. If I remember correctly you said you are no longer SBC.
If you disagree with the BF&M - it is probably best you left the convention.

I am so glad that God alone is Lord of my conscience and not you or any fundie manifesto.

About priesthood of the believer, the poll I posted a while back shows that most Baptists here believe that the laity can administer the ordinances, and most Baptists everywhere also believe that.

I affirm all versions of the BF&M prior to the 2000 imposter. Since that one departs from Baptist principles, it could be fairly said that it is you and others who hold to it who should leave not only the SBC but the Baptist denomination. I won't say it because I, unlike the "conservative resurgence", still hold to Baptist principles.