Bi-racial marriage

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
Sheeagle, someone else said it, but it is worth saying again. If you are worried about the children and will act or not act because of what society will do to them, then it is man that you fear.

Act doing what? I don't understand your post. I do worry about the children. But I don't let societal pressures (or even those in the church per se) determine my behavior or how I act or don't act towards others. Never have. Perhaps I was ahead of my time LOL!

Perhaps you and others are reading a whole lot more into my posts than what was intended.

Still would like some answers to my questions though about the historical Baptist position in these matters.

** edited to remove unnecessary remarks **

[ September 17, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Ransom]

D Moore said:

The only racial divide in the Bible is between the Jews and the Gentiles (who are comprised of every other nation, tribe and tongue, black, white, yellow or whatever).

Even that divide is somewhat blurred, as it was also possible for a Gentile to participate in the covenant:

But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you. (Exod. 12:48-49)

If the same law applied in both cases, I think it can be reasonably inferred that Jews could marry converts to Judaism as well.

 

[Sister Deb]

My brother, Anglo-Saxon, has been married to a Hispanic lady for 7 years. Many “Christian” people have criticized this as wrong and against the Bible, I have searched the Bible from one end to the other looking for evidence God would frown on this union.

The bible condemns over and over marriage with unbelievers but I can find no place in the Word that marriage with another skin color was condemned. Correct me if I’m wrong. Please no opinions, just Bible scripture and verse.

~Helen and Russell

 

[M Wickens]

In reply to Sheeagle911.

Normally I am in agreement with you, but here I must disagree.

You said...

"I should have been specific. The only children I know of who have suffered a backlash are those who have had a black parent and white parent. I know other ethnicities in mixed marriages and they really aren't considered "mixed" by today's standards."

-- Children are teased for many things. Should we stop having children to solve that problem?

"Weren't there Scriptures used at that time to support "being separate?"

-- If there were no one here seems to be able to bring them to light. Perhaps the truth is that while many who are against inter-racial marriage are not, I repeat NOT racist, their views stem not from Scripture but Southern slave tradition. (It is the the USA south that this view is dominent. It is practically the only place it exists.)

"Are all of you now saying that the Baptist Historical Position was wrong?

So, am I to conclude on the basis of all your posts the Baptist church was in error for lo these many centuries and only recently got it right?

Are Baptists now more enlightened than those in the past?"

-- Now there is some good Catholic reasoning. It has always been done, it must be right. Baptists, unlike Catholics, have no centralized body to tell us our doctrine. We take our doctrine from Scripture not from tradition. Certain baptists may have held to that belief but never the Baptist church as a whole.

I APPEAL TO THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST INTER-RACIAL MARRIAGE - WHERE IS THE PROOF IN SCRIPTURE? BOOK, CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE.

 

[Brett Valentine]

Trust me, that "racial seperation" attitude is alive and well in the north too! I've encountered it often, and on both sides of the "color line."

God does not restrict or forbid it. If it's okay with Him, everybody else is just going to have to "get over it." The important thing is that both persons realize that this route is difficult and often lonely, and you really need to have courage.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by Brett Valentine:
Trust me, that "racial seperation" attitude is alive and well in the north too! I've encountered it often, and on both sides of the "color line."

God does not restrict or forbid it. If it's okay with Him, everybody else is just going to have to "get over it." The important thing is that both persons realize that this route is difficult and often lonely, and you really need to have courage.

Amen! Yes you do. Thank you for the honesty in your post. This is what I was trying to get to the bottom of with what I posted. Aren't we supposed to seek the truth instead of glossing over the harsh realities! The reality is that children suffer even though it is not right.

So, thank you for having the courage to share.

 

[Optional]

The reality is that children suffer even though it is not right.

I agree this is a possibility.
I'll tell you, though, my twin daughters suffered much from the petty jealousy and gossip of other girls all through school. They had rumors spread, lies started, etc. This was because they were very pretty, strong for the Lord and opinionated about sin. They are very white.
I doubt my 2 mixed grandchildren will face anything more unusual than this themselves.
We can't bow to society and it's sins.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
My brother and I were shunned by my paternal aunts because we were the offspring of a "mixed" marriage. My father is an "American" (nominally Scottish descent) and my mother is of Austrian descent.

It would be laughable except that it caused an incredible amount of pain and division in our family. My aunts barely spoke to me and I barely know my cousins or knew my uncles on that side of the family. We did not associate with that part of the family after my paternal grandparents died in 1970 and 1972. My parents didn't want us subjected to the caustic comments of my aunts about our "half-breed" status.

The "funny" thing about it is that I'm lighter skinned they they are!

When I read your story, I thought of my family. Because my father married a blonde his family shunned us. My fathers family are all brunette...and have used this point as a bone of contention. I remember once overhearing my aunt calling my mother "Blonde devil" behind her back, and saying that is was from the devil that she had no eyelashes or eyebrows, (blonde eyelashes and brows...are somewhat transparent) and that her eyes were too light. (can you imagine a child hearing this ugliness?) It's very painful to think about my fathers side of the family...because they should have treated us like family...but, they thought because of our coloring...that we were not deserving of that priviledge. Does this make any kind of sense to you? Now you know why I hate blonde jokes.

As for Bi-racial marriages... We are all different... God made us that way. Who we are attracted to...is our personal preference. I have not read anything in the Bible about it being wrong. I've read that men should not be with other men, and woman likewise with other woman nor should they be with any beast outside of the human race. We should also not be unequally yoked with non-belivers.The rules seem to stop there.

 

[blackbird]

Here are Blackbird's perspectives!

4 basic races--white, black, yellow, red

In a world that is becoming more crowded with basically an equal amount of each--it is getting harder and harder to NOT have some racial marriages taking place. Basic human instinct will tell a person (usually) that white belongs with white and black belongs with black, etc, etc. BUT in a world where basically now every race has contact with each other--racial marriages can and do happen. And when it does, some family members of the same race ain't gonna like it that "She's fixin' to marry this black dude!"

Now, here lies the question and Blackbird's answer:

Let's just say that there is this white girl fixin' to marry this black dude! She's level headed and he's respectable, has a good education, and a good job. They've both been saved and love the Lord Jesus Christ with all their hearts. They are also in love with each other!

OK! So far so good! Now---enter the white girl's parents! They have a problem with the situation. And they say to their daughter "You can't marry this man!" and then they say to this man, "You can't marry our daughter!" And they say what they say to the daughter in Christian respect and in kindness. What's the daughter to do? What is the prospective groom to do? What should they do??

Here is Blackbird's answer(and I'm sure some will have a problem with my answer but it is sound biblically!) When the parents tell the daughter she can't marry the black man--I believe that she ought to have so much respect for her dad and mom--so much love for her daddy and mamma--that she should be able to muster up the courage to tell this black man, "I can't marry you! I'm sorry! I love my daddy and mamma too much to go against their wishes!" And this black man should have so much respect for her parents that when he hears them say he can't marry her--he needs to respectably say, "Yes, Sir! OK! I won't marry her!" and then he should just move on out of her life!

Ole Blackbird is a ragin' Cajun from Baton Rouge. Olive skined, black headed white dude! I married a girl from Talladega, Alabama. Blonde headed, ivory(as in soap!) white skin. Of German decent! I wanted to marry her. She wanted to marry me! I asked her and she said, "Yes!" If you ever meet my wife you would clearly say that ole Blackbird "outmarried" himself! I then asked her parents if I could marry their daughter! They said "Yes!" Now, had her parents said "No!" to me OR to their daughter--it would have broken my heart--but with all of the Christian gumption I could muster up--I would have left respecting her parents--gone back to Baton Rouge loving the Lord Jesus Christ and eventually married someone else!

That's how I view biblical authority from my perch!

I'm your friend,
Blackbird

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Blackbird your post has merit but I believe the Bible teaches us that the husband wife relationship is superior to that of parent child.
Murph

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by WisdomSeeker:
I remember once overhearing my aunt calling my mother "Blonde devil" behind her back, and saying that is was from the devil that she had no eyelashes or eyebrows, (blonde eyelashes and brows...are somewhat transparent) and that her eyes were too light. .. Does this make any kind of sense to you? Now you know why I hate blonde jokes.

Doesn't make a bit of sense to me... except that people can sure be stupid and cruel...

"Blonde devil"? That sounds like something Malcolm X would say... (FYI to the younger generation, Malcolm X called white folks -- especially light-colored ones -- "Blue-eyed devils".)

NOTE: I realized today that this thread is in the Fundamental Forum. I'm sorry I posted here since I promised I'd stay out. I will limit myself to this thread.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:

NOTE: I realized today that this thread is in the Fundamental Forum. I'm sorry I posted here since I promised I'd stay out. I will limit myself to this thread.[/QB]

Wow I had forgot about your promise or was it that I was glad to have you here, yeah that's it!!
Murph

 

[blackbird]

Brother Moderator Murphy,

The issue is not husband-wife over father-mother. The issue is before marriage. The white girl is not married to the black man yet--they are just wishing/wanting to get married and daddy/momma have a problem. The girl does not belong to the man yet--before she is married she still belongs to daddy/momma and going beyond their wishes and stomping all over their authority as parents--just to get married is going against the will of God the Father.

What I'm saying is--as long as she's not married yet--she is still under her parents authority and rule no matter what her age is and it would be contridicting God's word for her to marry when her parents have a problem with the potential groom--the soon coming marriage has not authority as of yet. Do you see??!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Bro.Blackbird~I'm impressed with your line of thought... (coming from an SBCer, I mean!) heeheehee

 

[Optional]

blackbird:
When the parents tell the daughter she can't marry the black man--I believe that she ought to have so much respect for her dad and mom--so much love for her daddy and mamma--that she should be able to muster up the courage to tell this black man, "I can't marry you! I'm sorry! I love my daddy and mamma too much to go against their wishes!" And this black man should have so much respect for her parents that when he hears them say he can't marry her--he needs to respectably say, "Yes, Sir! OK! I won't marry her!" and then he should just move on out of her life!

And if the white parents don't object? What is your position?

 

[LadyEagle]

blackbird....good post!

Of course it could be turned around, too. What if the black man's mamma said, "I don't want you to marry the white girl?" Sometimes black folk have strong feelings about these issues, as well.

I still say, Baptists and other Christians used to feel differently about inter-racial marriages. Look at Bob Jones University, for instance. They changed their position after being involved with litigation, I do believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that point.

 

[blackbird]

By and large I believe that God created the races for a reason. And I believe that the races belong together-white with white, black with black, red with red, yellow with yellow. White should be looking for a white marriage and black should be looking for a black marriage--get my drift??

In a world where culture is being mixed like never before--bi-racial marriages are going to happen from time to time--not just with white/black--but also with white/yellow and yellow/black.

Personally, as a parent I have a problem with it. I will teach my boy and girl my convictions and standards and I pray that they won't be led into some rebellion against their daddy and momma. As an outsider looking into a bi-racial marriage that does happen from time to time--I realize I can do nothing about it. I must allow it to happen and to go on--I ain't gonna lead some dumb rebellion against my neighbor if they happen to be white/yellow, white/black, or whatever.

Now, as a Senior Pastor of a SBC conservative church--would I marry a white/black in a church sanctioned marriage?? Not if the parents had a problem with it or if my members had a problem with it. Its still a "touchy" issue in the SBC and I can betcha $5 dollars that if the fundamental pastors would be truthful--it would be a "touchy" situation in their churches, too!

I'm your friend!
Blackbird

 

[LadyEagle]

"Today, largely because of immigration, there is no majority race in Hawaii or Houston or New York City... In a little more than 50 years there will be no majority race in the United States."
President Clinton, Portland State University Commencement, June 13, 1998

"Whites will be an ethnic minority in Britain by the end of the century... It would be the first time in history that a major indigenous population has voluntarily become a minority, rather than through war, famine or disease."
Anthony Browne, Sunday September 3, 2000 The Guardian, UK

 

[Daniel David]

Blackbird, you might not marry a couple because of the feelings of your members? Come on... You can't possibly back that up in Scripture. Perhaps if you taught from the Scripture that only one race exists, your people wouldn't have a problem with it.

Please show me where in Scripture it says anything about getting mama and papa's okay to marry someone.

 

[Optional]

Originally posted by blackbird:
By and large I believe that God created the races for a reason. And I believe that the races belong together-white with white, black with black, red with red, yellow with yellow. White should be looking for a white marriage and black should be looking for a black marriage--get my drift??

In a world where culture is being mixed like never before--bi-racial marriages are going to happen from time to time--not just with white/black--but also with white/yellow and yellow/black.

Personally, as a parent I have a problem with it. I will teach my boy and girl my convictions and standards and I pray that they won't be led into some rebellion against their daddy and momma. As an outsider looking into a bi-racial marriage that does happen from time to time--I realize I can do nothing about it. I must allow it to happen and to go on--I ain't gonna lead some dumb rebellion against my neighbor if they happen to be white/yellow, white/black, or whatever.

Now, as a Senior Pastor of a SBC conservative church--would I marry a white/black in a church sanctioned marriage?? Not if the parents had a problem with it or if my members had a problem with it. Its still a "touchy" issue in the SBC and I can betcha $5 dollars that if the fundamental pastors would be truthful--it would be a "touchy" situation in their churches, too!

I'm your friend!
Blackbird

Thank the good Lord my son-in-law and daughter didn't attend your church. My IFB church doesn't have a problem with it. Wonder why your SBC church does?
The Bible should be your guide - not your or your members feelings. Where's the leadership?