Bible Modesty - Part 1

[Rufus_1611]

By the way Rufus, do you dress modestly? And who defines what modest dress for a man is anyway?

Yes. The same one who defines what modest dress is for a woman, though the words "modest apparel" were only applied to the dress of women.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I am curious why you are lumping bikinis with pants?

It is all relevant to modest dress.

I am also curious as to why you think a follower of Christ would become a Hooter girl -- has this happened, in your personal knowledge?

Yes. Without getting personal, what would you say to this Christian mother who would take her child to Hooters twice a month?

"Laura wrote on July 05, 2006 10:32 AM:"I am taking my family to Hooters, My 3 children aged 8, 5 and 2. I love the food and the kids like the balloons, crayons and music. Have you been to a Hooters? Yes, it attracts men, and groups of them, but tell me ONE thing thats innappropriate there? THe UGLY shorts and tank tops? Spare me.. I am a CHRISTIAN mom, who will be taking my kids to HOOTERS 2 times a month hopefully for the BEST HOT WINGS AND BUFFALO SHRIMP ON THE PLANET. "​

Modesty means not dressing to excite someone sexually and to dress in such a way as is appropriate to the occasion and not cause embarrassment to others.

What is your source for this definition?

Because of this, there is definitely a cultural aspect, which I brought up before and which you ignored.

I didn't ignore it. I commented on it and this is now the fourth time I have read about it.

Many tribes in Africa, Christian or not, do not consider a woman's breasts to be sexually provocative. They are the means by which the little ones gain nourishment. Therefore bare breasts are not considered immodest. Here, yes. There, no.

I do not desire to take on the customs of Africa. I don't need their tattoos, piercings, music nor their bare breasts. Nor is what their culture believes about breasts at all relevant to how a Christian worldview should be formed relative to this topic. The Bible considers the woman's breasts to be sexually provocative, this is all that should matter to a Christian.

But in both places, regardless of dress, there is behavior which is considered provocative and immodest.

Please understand I am not advocating nudity at all. For me, in our culture, modesty means keeping a good deal more of me covered than the aforesaid natives of Africa feel necessary. It's also colder here....

However I, for one, will not and cannot and dare not do the Holy Spirit's job for Him in informing people of other cultures what is proper dress and what is not.

Similarly, here in the United States of America, if a woman is clearly a woman and is modestly dressed in whatever she is wearing, who am I to tell her she is wrong?

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." - Proverbs 27:5​

The Hooters things is just a red herring you are dragging across the argument, as is the mention of bikinis.

The Hooters thing is a vain attempt to get you folks to come up with a consistent argument. You believe there is a modest line that needs not be crossed but you have not established what that line is accept for your feelings about what is immodest.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Rufus, the scripturall instruction is that women should wear modest apparel. What H******* girls wear is not modest. Case closed! NNE on this board disagrees with this! What is the point of bringing it up?

Why do you believe this?! What is your foundation that tells you that what they are wearing is immodest? Upwards cheerleaders wear t-shirts and shorts, the Hooters waitresses wear t-shirts and shorts. What makes one modest and the other immodest? What makes one Christian and the other not?

Again, your act of raising the issue and using the name of the restaraunt puts a mental image in the mind of every man on this board that is not spiritually helpful. YOU are as much a stumbling block to men on this board as any girl who works in the restaraunt!

Your argument suggests that we should stop discussing war because that will cause brothers with violent tendencies to kill, we should stop discussing materialism as it might cause some to covet, we should stop discussing television as it might encourage idolatry etc.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Yes Rufus, how DO you know what a hooter's girl wears?

I have been to Hooters and worse in my lifetime. Ya'll think your going to make scripture disappear because a messenger may have been lost to sin in their lifetime? That's why you must be born-again is it not?

 

[Rufus_1611]

Yes Rufus, how DO you know what a hooter's girl wears?

I know for the same reason that I know what the girls in Laodicean churches wear.

 

[Amy.G]

Yes. The same one who defines what modest dress is for a woman, though the words "modest apparel" were only applied to the dress of women.

And the word lust was only applied to men.

 

[Amy.G]

I know for the same reason that I know what the girls in Laodicean churches wear.

Really, what do they wear?

 

[swaimj]

I have been to Hooters and worse in my lifetime. Ya'll think your going to make scripture disappear because a messenger may have been lost to sin in their lifetime?

Rufus, if this has been a source of struggle for you in your past life prior to salvation, you would be better off to drop this subject. Dwelling on this topic is bad for you spiritually. Often, people who have struggled with a particular sin or lifestyle need to distance themselves from it after salvation and allow their mind to be renewed in holiness by the spirit. Paul instructs us to think on things that are good, lovely, and full of virtue and praise. As you do this, your thinking will be renewed and you may discover that things that had a powerful hold on you prior to salvation are not as tempting as they once were. When God does this work of grace in your heart and mind, then you will be ready to minister to others who are struggling with this temptation.

 

[Amy.G]

Why would you desire to? How does a football jersey accentuate your feminine beauty and why would you desire to wear that which pertains to a man?

Oh boy. Well, I don't know what other women do, but I WORK at home and get dirty and messy doing it. I have helped build 2 houses with my husband and I personally hung all the insulation in both. I didn't look very feminine doing it, but it saved thousands of $. Maybe if I had worn a skirt I would have looked better even with the insulation stuck in my hair.
You are trying to make a valid argument and are not able to. And my husband does approve of my dress not that it's any of your business. I feel more comfortable wearing pants in public than a dress BECAUSE they cover more and I don't have to worry about how much leg is showing. I have to stop now because I'm getting angry.

 

[Blammo]

Using the same logic - "Women's pants are made for women, therefore it is okay for a woman to wear them. It is not the attire of a man."

Do some of you not see how, at some point in the future, we will see men's dresses. What will be your argument against men wearing men's dresses? Just because something has become accepted does not mean it should be accepted. I believe, in my lifetime, I will see men walking around in men's dresses, and we will see debates on christian forums about it. What side will you be on?

Honestly, I don't have a problem with women wearing women's pants. But, when I think about men wearing men's dresses, it makes me wonder, should there be a line? Obviously everybody draws the line somewhere. We, as christians, are all legalists to someone.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Really, what do they wear?

The same clothes.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Rufus, if this has been a source of struggle for you in your past life prior to salvation, you would be better off to drop this subject. Dwelling on this topic is bad for you spiritually. Often, people who have struggled with a particular sin or lifestyle need to distance themselves from it after salvation and allow their mind to be renewed in holiness by the spirit. Paul instructs us to think on things that are good, lovely, and full of virtue and praise. As you do this, your thinking will be renewed and you may discover that things that had a powerful hold on you prior to salvation are not as tempting as they once were. When God does this work of grace in your heart and mind, then you will be ready to minister to others who are struggling with this temptation.

This is not a struggle for me. However, if I had problems with certain Biblical words and the "H" word, I think your counsel would be quite wise.

 

[Scarlett O.]

The same clothes.

Rufus, I don't care if you have been to that particular restaurant in your past. I'm just glad you don't go anymore.

I think everyone here agrees that both men and women can definitely be immodest in their wardrobe.

But what the majority of us are trying to say is that bible does not mandate that women cannot wear pants.

Both men and women in the OT wore long, flowing robes of various styles. Today, both men and women wear pants of various styles.

 

[swaimj]

I believe, in my lifetime, I will see men walking around in men's dresses, and we will see debates on christian forums about it. What side will you be on?

You know the old saying "If you see 10 problems coming down the road nine will fall in the ditch before they get to you. I just can't see myself sitting around worrying about this. I grew up in fundamentalism and I remember when we were all obsessed about the communists taking over America and killing all the Christians. That didn't happen and I'm sorry I wasted time worrying about it.

 

[tinytim]

Would any of us men wear what Jesus wore?
I wouldn't go out in a long robe... would you?

I doubt it.
I can see me now walking down the aisles in Walmart in a Biblical robe.
Even the Amish don't go that far...

And if we are to emulate the modesty of Christ, shouldn't we dress like Him?

I can't wait to get mine in Heaven, but Heaven can wait.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Oh boy. Well, I don't know what other women do, but I WORK at home and get dirty and messy doing it. I have helped build 2 houses with my husband and I personally hung all the insulation in both. I didn't look very feminine doing it, but it saved thousands of $. Maybe if I had worn a skirt I would have looked better even with the insulation stuck in my hair.

What you do or wear between you and your husband is between you and your husband. However, keep in mind that for a great portion of our history when women were required to provide physical labor, they did not change into men's clothes to do it.

You are trying to make a valid argument and are not able to. And my husband does approve of my dress not that it's any of your business.

Then why share it? I would rather we not make these issues personal. This should be a doctrinal discussion. What Biblical argument do you have for women wearing that which pertaineth to men? What Biblical argument do you have for women showing their thighs? Where is your line for what is modest and immodest and how do you support your positions using the Bible?

I feel more comfortable wearing pants in public than a dress BECAUSE they cover more and I don't have to worry about how much leg is showing. I have to stop now because I'm getting angry.

I'm sorry you are angry but your feelings and your comfort are not germain to scripture and what is right or wrong. There are a lot of things that God tells us that do not seem comfortable or do not feel good. However, if we love Him we do it anyway.

 

[tinytim]

I know for the same reason that I know what the girls in Laodicean churches wear.

Is there a church still in Laodicea?
I bet the women there wore robes.. as did the men.

Why are you bringing up a church that is almost 2000 yrs old?
Surely you don't believe that the churches in Rev. = the church age, do you?

You have no proof for that... it was invented by an overactive imagination.

What did, (or do... if they still exist) the women in Laodicea wear?

Probably a garment that would look like a long dress today.

 

[swaimj]

Rufus said

This is not a struggle for me.

Are you saying that you never struggle with sexual temptation at all? Wow! If you were engaged in these things in the past and now you do not struggle with them, that is great! Perhaps you would be more effective if you shared your struggle and encouraged others in their struggle. Perhaps you could share some of the biblical passages that God used to give you victory in your life. This would be preferable to your use of words and language that can stir up other's passions and cause them to fall.

 

[Blammo]

You know the old saying "If you see 10 problems coming down the road nine will fall in the ditch before they get to you. I just can't see myself sitting around worrying about this. I grew up in fundamentalism and I remember when we were all obsessed about the communists taking over America and killing all the Christians. That didn't happen and I'm sorry I wasted time worrying about it.

Brother, I did not say I was losing any sleep over it, did I? I never even gave it a thought before I read through this thread. After reading through this thread, I definately see it as inevitable.

What will be your argument against men in men's dresses? Once it becomes acceptable, what will be the biblical argument against it?

My wife wears pants from time to time, but I will never wear a dress. I grew up in a time when men did not wear dresses. My Son will probably never wear a dress. But, what about my Grandson? It may be perfectly normal for a man to wear a dress when my Grandson is born. I am not expecting him for about 10 years.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Rufus, I don't care if you have been to that particular restaurant in your past. I'm just glad you don't go anymore.

I think everyone here agrees that both men and women can definitely be immodest in their wardrobe.

But what the majority of us are trying to say is that bible does not mandate that women cannot wear pants.

Both men and women in the OT wore long, flowing robes of various styles. Today, both men and women wear pants of various styles.

The Bible says that men should not wear that which pertains to women and women should not wear that which pertains to men. It is commonly understood that dresses are for women and only women should wear dresses. What was formerly understood and only contemporarily changed is that pants were for men and only men should wear them. The world's fashion changed this principle and the roles of women changed along with them and the strength of family was weakened because of it.

As to the long flowing garments, only men girded up their loins. Only men wore breeches. Only men wore hosen. These were never garments that applied to women in the Bible.