Bible Scavenger Hunt

[1689Dave]

I said:

You responded:


First Observation:
I was waiting for your "exegesis" of the verses claiming people will "reign with Him (Christ) for a thousand years" as somehow not meaning a "Millennial Kingdom". Your response is hardly an exegesis. Good grief, man ... it says in plain English that people will reign with Christ (very DEFINITION of a "kingdom") and that this will last 1000 years (the definition of a Millennium). You can argue that the "Millennial Kingdom" will not be as it is described in popular literature, but the existence of a Biblical claim of a "Millennial Kingdom" (the 1000 year reign of Christ) is obvious and irrefutable.

Second Observation:
Your refutation of the 1000 year reign of Christ being a Millennial Kingdom is the simple statement "Satan attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end". Would this be the event that you are referring to:

[Revelation 19:11-21 NKJV]
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes [were] like a flame of fire, and on His head [were] many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on [His] robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people], free and slave, both small and great."
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

[Revelation 20:7-10 NKJV]
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are]. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

In this "attack" (as you call it), the enemies of God gather to make war (Rev 19:19), then the beast and false prophet are captured and cast into the lake of fire (Rev 19:20), and then Jesus kills the rest of the enemy army all by himself (Rev 19:21) and the birds feast on their corpses. That isn't really much of an attack, is it? Evil shows up and God handles it while the Church cheers God on! Not too different from salvation, if you think about it.

So what exactly is it about this afternoon distraction that nullifies the previous 1000 years of Christ reigning (Rev 20:4-6)?

The 1000 years = the binding of Satan. When they end he is loosed. So the 1000 are the binding of Satan. The saints do the binding under the same symbol preaching the gospel to the nations (whole world). They (we) are the Kingdom. When the 1000 years end, Satan is loosed and attacks The Kingdom.

 

[1689Dave]

How could Luther have subscribed to a Jesuit theory that came after him that was constructed to take the heat off the awful Popes?

He didn't.

 

[church mouse guy]

He didn't.

But you wrote this: This is correct. But Larkin says futurism is also of Jesuit origins. Read his quotes above.

So Luther precedes Jesuit deception so how could something that comes after be before. You have me all mixed up with your old world theology.

 

[1689Dave]

But you wrote this: This is correct. But Larkin says futurism is also of Jesuit origins. Read his quotes above.

So Luther precedes Jesuit deception so how could something that comes after be before. You have me all mixed up with your old world theology.

Luther taught that the Papacy and Islam were the Antichrist. As did Calvin. Neither were futurists.

 

[Yeshua1]

Luke and Matthew are parallel passages that interpret each other. Don't make it say more than it does.

You MUST fit Jesus words into what all of the NT states to us concerning the GT and Second Coming events though!

 

[Yeshua1]

Luther taught that the Papacy and Islam were the Antichrist. As did Calvin. Neither were futurists.

What does the scriptures saying regarding eschatology though?

 

[Yeshua1]

This helps understand where the doctrines listed in the OP came from. I have them in Clarence Larkin's book Dispensational Truth. But this is an easy to read overview.

As part of the Counter Reformation, the Catholic Church commissioned Jesuit priests to write counter interpretations of Bible prophecy as a counter response to the Protestant reformation when the finger was pointed at them as being antichrist. Spanish Jesuit, Francisco Ribera proposed that the final seven years of the 70 weeks of Daniel was a future antichrist and that antichrist would bring an end to sacrifices in a rebuilt temple. This is where the supposed 7 years of tribulation comes from before the second coming of Christ. But this was manufactured prophecy, written with the sole purpose of deceiving Christians on the true identity of antichrist. When has a Bible passage ever been so abused by Satan? Attributing Daniel’s 70th week of Jesus’ baptism and crucifixion and applying it instead to antichrist is outright blasphemous. http://www.daniels70weeks.com

Where did those holding to Covenant Theology weho are also premil get that from, the RCC?

 

[Yeshua1]

Luke says the abomination of desolation (Antiochus Epiphanes did this already but remains a symbol) = the surrounding of Jerusalem with armies.

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:20–22)

Jesus said

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:15–21)

That Abomination would be the man of Sin arising up, and proclaiming Himself to being God Himself, who did that in teh temple AD 70?

 

[Yeshua1]

But, there is no 7 year tribulation in scripture. So you need not try to reconcile this obvious blunder with the Father only knowing the time of the end.

That is due to you misunderstanding just whom Daniel was astating was the one who brought the treaty to israel and broke in in the middle of the term.

 

[Yeshua1]

Study Josephus on the destruction of Jerusalem and consider Jesus' words instead of challenging them.

Was there destruction on a world wide scale though, as that will be the Great Tribulation, an event that will make the jewish Holucost look mild!

 

[1689Dave]

Was there destruction on a world wide scale though, as that will be the Great Tribulation, an event that will make the jewish Holucost look mild!

Are you reading wild theories into Matthew that do not exist? Post scripture to back your claims. At the end, Jesus destroys the universe and this takes out everything.

 

[1689Dave]

Was there destruction on a world wide scale though, as that will be the Great Tribulation, an event that will make the jewish Holucost look mild!

We need scripture to support this.

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you reading wild theories into Matthew that do not exist? Post scripture to back your claims. At the end, Jesus destroys the universe and this takes out everything.

What do you think the veil and Bowl judgements of God refere to then?

 

[Yeshua1]

We need scripture to support this.

Matthew 24.21

 

[1689Dave]

That Abomination would be the man of Sin arising up, and proclaiming Himself to being God Himself, who did that in teh temple AD 70?

This is Paul's description of the man of sin. Luke says the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem is the Abomination of Desolation. In the NT the Temple of God is the Church. So Antichrist will sit over Christendom as the Papacy did for centuries.

 

[1689Dave]

What do you think the veil and Bowl judgements of God refere to then?

I believe in the Recapitulation view of Revelation. This is also the view of the oldest commentary on Revelation ever found. Revelation covers from the onset of the New Covenant until the end of the world 7 times. Just as the 4 gospels provide different spins on the same things, Revelation gives 7 views of the New Covenant era. Followed by the Judgement and creation of the New Heavens and earth.

If you look for the symbols to appear, you will never see them. But if you look for what they represent, history is full of what they depicted. They also give us an idea of what to expect.

 

[1689Dave]

Matthew 24.21

Fulfilled in 70 AD.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe in the Recapitulation view of Revelation. This is also the view of the oldest commentary on Revelation ever found. Revelation covers from the onset of the New Covenant until the end of the world 7 times. Just as the 4 gospels provide different spins on the same things, Revelation gives 7 views of the New Covenant era. Followed by the Judgement and creation of the New Heavens and earth.

If you look for the symbols to appear, you will never see them. But if you look for what they represent, history is full of what they depicted. They also give us an idea of what to expect.

Except that the judgements of God being poured upon earth were to be the ones RIGHT before the second coming events, so still yet future!

 

[Yeshua1]

Fulfilled in 70 AD.

How did that event thratened all life, that would ahve caused all to die if not ended by the Lord?

 

[1689Dave]

How did that event thratened all life, that would ahve caused all to die if not ended by the Lord?

No flesh saved in Israel unless cut short? That's the meaning.