He went to heaven on the word of Jesus alone, do you doubt that this could not happen?
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Bible, sole authority?
- Thread starter ntchristian
- Start date
He went to heaven on the word of Jesus alone, do you doubt that this could not happen?
No it does not. It proves that Jesus can waive any requirement at any time - he could pardon Hitler if he wanted to.
Did the Thief go to Heaven or Paradise?
(note: bold my emphasis)
Okay lets us the Thief on the Cross with an example in this current age:
A man has been sentenced to the Electric char - has be in prison waiting on his execution.
Moments before he is to be led to chair - the chaplain spends a few moment with him.
The convict accepts the Lord has his Savior, and now has been assured of his salvation.
No time is allowed for baptism. Ten minutes the switch has been pulled. - Does this man
go to Heaven - or does lack of baptism - send him to Hell.
A simple "Heaven" or "Hell" should suffice!
Scripture please?
Your example is faulty. The chaplain is not Jesus Christ in the flesh speaking the words as he did with the thief on the Cross. Any chaplain worth his salt would immediately baptize the condemned man by sprinkling with water and using the proper words. In an emergency such as this, his own spittle would suffice.
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Do you doubt that Jesus Christ could do anything he wants at any time? I don't.
So you are saying he could sin
ntchristian
Active Member
I am going to take a mediating position on this subject of baptism and faith. First, and I'll repeat, I tend toward taking what the scriptures say at face value, interpreting them literally unless there is some good reason to do otherwise. Let me state upfront that since my days in Orthodoxy I have come to disbelieve baptismal regeneration. However, in looking at the scriptures quoted on baptism and from reading about the beliefs and practices of the first Christians, it seems to me that water baptism was considered something more than a symbol. Therefore, I do not accept the attempts that have been made here to explain away the verses involved.
Second, though, let me ask the Catholic brethren here this: If baptismal regeneration was true -- that one can be spiritually reborn through water baptism, where does faith fit in? If spiritual rebirth can be brought about by water baptism, then there is no need for faith. And if that was true, would it not be your obligation to get as many into the kingdom as possible by sprinkling water on them wherever you go, seeing that in an emergency any layperson can baptize, in the Catholic tradition? What is more urgent than getting people into the kingdom, and what easier way to do it than sprinkling water on them in the name of Jesus, if baptismal regeneration is true?
At this point in my journey, I have to say that I don't know what baptism does, but I do not subscribe to either of the viewpoints presented here.
Second, though, let me ask the Catholic brethren here this: If baptismal regeneration was true -- that one can be spiritually reborn through water baptism, where does faith fit in? If spiritual rebirth can be brought about by water baptism, then there is no need for faith. And if that was true, would it not be your obligation to get as many into the kingdom as possible by sprinkling water on them wherever you go, seeing that in an emergency any layperson can baptize, in the Catholic tradition? What is more urgent than getting people into the kingdom, and what easier way to do it than sprinkling water on them in the name of Jesus, if baptismal regeneration is true?
At this point in my journey, I have to say that I don't know what baptism does, but I do not subscribe to either of the viewpoints presented here.
There's only the ONE salvation from Jesus, not several types.
As a Baptist, I believe every new Christian SHOULD be baptized if at all possible, but there are some who can't be baptized, such as the aforementioned thief. But Jesus knows when one can't be baptized, and those who may be trying to avoid it for some reason.
As I've said umpteen times, baptizing an unsaved person only produces a wet sinner. For baptism to serve its purpose, the baptizee must first be saved. BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE ANYONE !
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Jesus instituted the new Covenant the first time he forgave one's sins. he stated it was in place at the "Last Supper". So, saying it was not in effect while Jesus was still alive on the cross is wrong.
37818
Well-Known Member
God is the finial authority in all truth.
Jesus argued against the Devil, citing the Law, Deuteronomy 8:3, as found in Matthew 4:4, ". . . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Now the Apostle Paul wrote Timothy regarding Holy Scripture, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, ". . . given by inspiration of God [literally God breahed], and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
So unless there are other writings which are God breathed, the 66 books, recongized as such, are the sole written authroity. And any other arguments are foolishness.
Jesus argued against the Devil, citing the Law, Deuteronomy 8:3, as found in Matthew 4:4, ". . . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Now the Apostle Paul wrote Timothy regarding Holy Scripture, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, ". . . given by inspiration of God [literally God breahed], and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
So unless there are other writings which are God breathed, the 66 books, recongized as such, are the sole written authroity. And any other arguments are foolishness.
ntchristian
Active Member
What about books such as the Shepherd of Hermas? It was widely read in the early church and almost considered scripture, but ultimately not included. And on what basis do you only include the 66 books? What about the Catholic and Orthodox Bibles, also which disagree with each other on the canon, I might add? Who is correct, and how do you determine who is correct, or, might I say, who determines who is correct?
It is because the true Bible is that that is not mixed with idolatries and sorceries added by demons in the Lord's book through horrible and fictious figures to confuse the people and mislead them by the enchantment of the old Serpent, the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world.
Paul Apostle said: "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty (about the things God have said), so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2Corinthians 11: v.3
Anyway, now in the current time, in this beginning of this first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, a strong angel of the Lord, in fact an Archangel, comes down from above, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he will lay hold on the Dragon, actually the Red Dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns and a terrorific TAIL, the old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and will bind him a thousand years.
And will cast him into the bottomless pit, and will shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:v.1-3
In the verse 4, is revealed that John also saw the thrones, and they which are sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them...
The battle will be against three UNCLEAN spirits of demons:
Revelation 16:v. 13-16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the Dragon, and out of the MOUTH of the Beast, and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet. (these three are the trinity of Satan, a satanic trinity)
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles (REVELATION 13:v.13-14), which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty. (the Lord's Day)
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
A WARNING
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Woe of the idolaters. Woe of the sorcerers. Woe of the world of the Devil with his devilish idolater religions , and sects, false Christinanty, and all kind of evil doers.
The wrath of God will fall upon all in this corrent time, there will be great punishments, only and only punishments, - the order is to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will - Revelation 11:v.6.
Only the true people of God will be saved, in the same way as it happened in Egypt:
Exodus 12:12-13
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute JUDGMENT: I am the Lord.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Malachi 3:v.16-17
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that Day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. - This Day has arrived -
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Yeah, then you will see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between the person who serves God and one that doesn’t serve Him.
And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto this Day of redemption. Eph.4:v.30
Amen
Not even God could not do that by just declaring it to happen, as all saved by God have to have the atonement of Christ applied towards them! That is done by grace alone, thru faith alone!
We know that Jesus and the Pharisees agreed upon the OT canon, was already fixed, and the NT books were all agreed upon and in use by end of first century, early second century!
No other books were ever received as inspired by Apostolic authority, at least not until added much later on by Rome!
37818
Well-Known Member
The RCC has no real Apostolic authority. So we agree our NT is the sole Apostolic Christian faith authority handed down to us.
Rome was forced to add bogus scriptures, as the inspired ones did not have their theology in them!
We know that Rome was the fourth Beast upon the earth (Daniel 7:v.23), which was diverse from all kingdoms, devouring the whole earth and tread it down, and broking it in pieces.--->The KINGDOM of the Roman Empire was from 395 BC - 476AD -
Notice that until this present time of Apocalypse, in which we are living, did not rise up any other UNIVERSAL empire besides the Roman Empire, right? But it will rise up FROM NOW ON, as soon as the second Beast manifest himself, which shall come up out of the earth, Rev.13: v.11-18, and then there will be TWO religious Beasts reigning on the Earth, one in Rome - a Gentile Beast (Rev.13:v.1-10)- , and another in JERUSALEM - Israel - a Jewish Beast.
Both CATHOLICISM (Iron) and JUDAISM(Clay) will build the religious and SATANIC Universal Antichrist's Kingdom. This will be the FIFTH Universal Kingdom, the Universal Antichrist's Empire, showed in the TWO FEET and 10 TOES of the IMAGE, in part of IRON and in part of CLAY.
WE ARE LIVING EXACTLY IN THE TIME COMPREENDED BY TWO FEET AND 10 TOES OF THE IMAGE OF NEBUCHADNEZZAR'S DREAM - IRON AND CLAY. By the way, there is no other people than the people of Israel that is called by Scriptures as MADE of CLAY by the Potter's clay. Isaiah 64:v.8 among others.
The 10 TOES are 10 tribes of the 12 tribes of Israel, which REBELLED against the house of David. By the way. JESUS is of the house of David and they reject Him. The Jewish Beast, who is a false messiah, is of the tribe of Dan, he is the Old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world. 2Thes.2:v. 9-10 ---> 9-Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Behold, we have just arrived in the time of the TWO feet and 10 TOES,(10 TOES:this detail is very important) part of iron and part of clay. We can see here that the complete extension of the universal Roman Empire is represented in the TWO LEGS exclusively.
ln this time of the FEET and 10 TOES, in which we are living, the history is another, very very different, because the ORIGINAL Roman Empire was DISSOLVED by entire IN TWO PARTS figured in the TWO LEGS OF IRON,and it fulfilled LITERALLY: Roman Empire of Western, endured from 395BC-476AD- Bizantine Roman Empire from 330AD-1.453AD --->Both kingdoms were DISSOLVED completely, EXCEPT its religious system which remains until this present time of Apocalypse, practically both empires were politically and militarily dissolved AND THEIR INHABITANTS spread among nations, both empires were transformed into A SPECIFIC religious Powers until today.
Furthermore, now, in the End of the times, these TWO Beasts will make a deal who will rule first the universal Antichrist's Kingdom, and the prophecy in the book of Revelation states or reveals - Revelation 13:v.5 - that who will reign THE FIRST PERIOD OF 42 MONTHS OR 1260 DAYS is the Gentile Beast, the Pope through the woman, the Great Whore, which rides upon him.
Ended 42 months, who will assume the Antichrist's Empire is the Jewish Beast like a lamb, in fact a false lamb, a false messiah, the son of perdition, the own Satan incarnated, a former Cherub, an IMPOSTER, and he will reign in the second period of 42 months. Here ends the devilish world of the Devil, the old Serpent.
The Kingdom of God will be established as is written in Revelation 11:v.15 and Rev. 5:v.10, as follow:
Rev.11:v.15 - The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev. 5:v.10 - And hast MADE US unto our God kings and priests: and WE shall reign on the earth.
Remember: JESUS is the KING of kings, right? And LORD of the lords.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings(kings made by Him), and LORD of lords