Featured BIBLICAL atonement

the fact that you said that you once believed in Penal Substitution, it seems that it is you who someone has managed to delude into believing that you were wrong!

You keep on falsely saying, like Agedman, and some others, that it is not in the Bible. Yet just THREE verses in the NT, Romans 3:25; 2 Cor 5:21; and Galatians 3:13, show that you are WRONG!

Now you can prove that these verses do not teach Penal Substitution?

 

1 Peter 2:24 - "and He Himself brought our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed"

Galatians 3:13 - "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”

2 Corinthians 5:21 - "for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him"

 

yeah, reminds me of what Jesus says about the blind leading the blind!

 

A T Robertson on Galatians 3:13, is right

Having become a curse for us (genomenos huper hēmōn katara). Here the graphic picture is completed. We were under (hupo) a curse, Christ became a curse over (huper) us and so between us and the overhanging curse which fell on him instead of on us. Thus he bought us out (ek) and we are free from the curse which he took on himself. This use of huper for substitution is common in the papyri and in ancient Greek as in the N.T. (Joh_11:50; 2Co_5:14.).

 

I see typically in all of your misquoting of the Bible, you OMIT any reference to Romans 3:25; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal 3:13, etc? Is this because these Scriptures actually are AGAINST what you now believe in, and you rather IGNORE them?

 

"Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded FOR OUR transgressions, he was bruised FOR OUR iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was on him; and with his stripes we are healed...Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand" Isaiah 53:4, 5, 10)

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse FOR US: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree" - Galatians 3:13

Can you not see that OUR punishmeant and sins were on Jesus Christ Who suffered FOR US? Which parts of this can you not understand? would it help if I gave the OT in Hebrew and the NT in Greek, which complete meanings?

 

Can you not see that when the Bible says that God "wounded, afflicted, bruised" Jesus Christ, it was for OUR sins. This means that Jesus suffered this ON BEHALF of US. Jesus became a curse FOR US?

Jon if God did not "wounded, afflicted, bruised" Jesus Christ, for OUR SINS, then WHOSE? Was it for Jesus' sins???

As I have already shown, I believe the the Greek ἰλαστήριος, is not talking about any APPEASEMENT, but is used for "sin-offering".

 

Again, Galatians 3:13 .

 

And again, 1 Peter 2:24 .

 

Insult? I don't know what you mean. You're the one confessing that Christ is not your substitute. I'm just agreeing with you.

 

The Greek translated "for" preceding the genitive case does in fact mean "instead."
υπερ Strong's, 'A primary preposition; " over", that is, (with the genitive case) of place, above, beyond, across, or causal, for the sake of, instead, regarding ; . . .'

 

what do you make of Matthew 20:28, where Jesus Himself speaks of His Death?

"even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom FOR many.” (also Mark 10:45)

The English FOR is the Greek preposition ἀντί, which means, "instead, in the place of, to denote exchange"

This, is what is known as SUBSTITUTION

Can you and agedman, and the other opponents to the BIBLICAL Teaching of Penal Substitution Atonement, explain what Jesus is here saying. There can be NTHER way to understand the use of the Greek ἀντί here!

 

Lets look at this.

1. The penalty of sin is death,
2. We are born dead in adam,
3. We are made alive who were dead....

conclusion.

spiritual death (separation from God) is the penalty of sin.

Jesus, on the cross. Said it is finished (tetelestai)

Tetelestai in the Greek is actually a judicial term. It means "paid in full"

Jesus in his own words states the penalty of sin was paid in full. Yet he had not yet died physically yet. He also then let his physical body die a physical death.

While on the cross. And while getting beat, He never cried out. Not once did he cry out. Until the 9th hour. something so horrible in that moment made his scream in pain.

what was that thing that made him scream?

Your sin, My sin, The sin of the whole world was placed on his body, and in that moment, He suffered the penalty of sin (spiritual death) as he screamed, My God (father) My God (Holy Spirit) Why have you forsaken me.

Forsake in greek - enkatelipes - to abandon, to desert, to leave behind, to forsake,

so yeah.. Not only is it scripturally. but it is right there in black and white.

Christ became a curse for us.

Subsitituion.

Christ died for us - substitution

he who knew no sin, became sin, substitution.

Without substitution there is no satisfaction.

As for Christ paying a price. He redeemed (purchased) us by his blood. that was the price.[/QUOTE]