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Biblical Solution to Spousal Abuse
- Thread starter Eladar
- Start date
Yes, but if you heard her interview she also mentioned that divorce was never an option but murder was a time or two. Also God used another man to reach her husband.Originally posted by Eladar:
If the wife hangs around in attempt to save her husband from damnation, then it could be argued that she was being beaten for her faith in Jesus Christ. My wife was telling me about Reba McEntire's sister who did hang around and her husband did come around and no longer abuses her. I'm sure that you find this example ridiculous, but that does not mean it could never happen. It took 15 years, but it did happen.
Some do come around and some don't. But I believe every abuser can change but the choice is his. Most will not change until put to the test. If the man will not expsoe himself the church must step in and deal with him. That is where there are too many whimps in the church who call themselves leaders. Amazing how when I would bring it up at a deacons meeting how many would run.
That is the law in many states. It should never be up to the victim to expose the abuser. Just as it should not be up to a victim of a theft or violent action to decide if he wants to see the person prosecuted.Originally posted by Eladar:
You obviously believe that the victim should have no right to decide if the abuse should be reported or not.
This takes us back to whether or not the woman has the ability to carry her cross if she is willing to try to reach her husband. Yes, God is at work in both the husband and wife's life. Either way this is true, but it seems to me that the cut and run people don't want to admit that even if the woman stays God is still there.Yes, but if you heard her interview she also mentioned that divorce was never an option but murder was a time or two.
This is true for every sinner.Some do come around and some don't. But I believe every abuser can change but the choice is his.
I have no problem with that.Most will not change until put to the test. If the man will not expsoe himself the church must step in and deal with him.
It seems that those deacons did not pass their test.That is where there are too many whimps in the church who call themselves leaders. Amazing how when I would bring it up at a deacons meeting how many would run.
How is calling the cops not exposing the abuser?That is the law in many states. It should never be up to the victim to expose the abuser.
This is where we disagree. I believe the person being wronged is the exact person who should get to decide if the act gets prosecuted or not.Just as it should not be up to a victim of a theft or violent action to decide if he wants to see the person prosecuted.
By the way, I appreciate the change in tone of your posts.
That is the law in many states. It should never be up to the victim to expose the abuser. Just as it should not be up to a victim of a theft or violent action to decide if he wants to see the person prosecuted. </font>[/QUOTE]__________________________________________________Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eladar:
You obviously believe that the victim should have no right to decide if the abuse should be reported or not.
By this rationale it appears to me you automatically disqualify the possibility for the victim to forgive their offender.
You eliminate the chance for the victim to forgive and forget, thereby giving the offender the chance to amend his ways and to see true christian charity.
I DO NOT SUPOPORT THE MAN WHO CONTINUALLY BEATS HIS WIFE WITH NO REMORSE AND NO ATTEMPT TO REFORM HIS BEHAVIOR.
OTOH, I do not support the idea of disolving a possibly good marriage due to abuse. Our ONLY goal ought to be restoration and forgiveness. A woman who has been beat repeatedly ought to be given sanctuary from the man who shows a pattern of beatings. But the marriage SHOULD NEVER be disolved before a genuine attempt at restoration and healing and forgiveness.
My wife endured this kind of beating for 20 years before she left her first husband. He is unsaved, she was backslid. Not justifying anything, that is just how it was. She DID try for years to believe he would change. He showed no desire to change. She had no choice but to leave him.
As I said in my first post, this is a very hard subject to come to Biblical terms with a sound method of dealing with the TWO people involved. Emotions are high and it is so difficult to cut through the emotions and try to see what God would want to happen. If BOTH parties want the marriage to work, then you have something with which you can work. Otherwise, you must find a sloution that will bring honor to God. In the arena of abuse, one must always seek the glory of God, as is the case in ALL wo do and ALL matters with which we encounter.
In HIS service;
Jim
I believe this is a very important aspect to the discussion. It brings to mind 1 Corinthians 6:1-11By this rationale it appears to me you automatically disqualify the possibility for the victim to forgive their offender.
You eliminate the chance for the victim to forgive and forget, thereby giving the offender the chance to amend his ways and to see true christian charity.
I know this is in conflict with both the concept of following the laws and justice in the cases where the church looks the other direction. The question then becomes do we fix the church or do we simply ignore the Bible's instruction and try to make things work anyhow.
I agree completely.OTOH, I do not support the idea of disolving a possibly good marriage due to abuse. Our ONLY goal ought to be restoration and forgiveness.
I would say that she should be given the opportunity of sanctuary. There is still 1Cor. 7:10-16.A woman who has been beat repeatedly ought to be given sanctuary from the man who shows a pattern of beatings. But the marriage SHOULD NEVER be disolved before a genuine attempt at restoration and healing and forgiveness.
How a non-believer is to be saved is a mystery. It could either be through turning to Christ, but perhaps it is through the two being one body.
AngelforChrist
New Member
I believe that a man who abuses his wife is guilty of spiritual adultery , the bible says that a man that doesnt take care of his family is worse than a non believer . Any woman being abused should leave untill the man either gets help or ends the relationship - period.
AngelforChrist
New Member
Adultery can be many things - sexual , meaning one who is married having relations with another outside of the marriage thats the first meaning , then there is - Idolatry, covetousness, and apostasy are spoken of as adultery spiritually (Jer. 3:6, 8, 9; Ezek. 16:32; Hos. 1:2:3; Rev. 2:22). An apostate church is an adulteress (Isa. 1:21; Ezek. 23:4, 7, 37), and the Jews are styled "an adulterous generation" (Matt. 12:39). (Comp. Rev. 12.)
A man can be apostate to the marriage , which is a covenant with God as well as his wife - a man who doesnt care for his wife (family) is defined worse than a non believer leaving him apostate to God and the relationship with his wife , therfore he is guilty of spiritual adultery - here are some verses on it :
Epesians 5:28. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.
29. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.
Colossians 3:8. But now you must also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
Colossians 3:19. Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.
Colossians 3:12. Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13. bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. "
Abuse has no place in this scenerio and above this in verse 5 the opposite behavior to this is called coveteousness and idolotry.
1 peter 3:7. Likewise you husbands, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.
1 timothy 5:8. But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
I would say denying the faith makes one a spiritual adulterer , since there is no covenant here when one is unwilling to stay in covenant. Apostate , one who has left truth , proper teaching , upright actions .
A man can be apostate to the marriage , which is a covenant with God as well as his wife - a man who doesnt care for his wife (family) is defined worse than a non believer leaving him apostate to God and the relationship with his wife , therfore he is guilty of spiritual adultery - here are some verses on it :
Epesians 5:28. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.
29. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.
Colossians 3:8. But now you must also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
Colossians 3:19. Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.
Colossians 3:12. Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13. bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. "
Abuse has no place in this scenerio and above this in verse 5 the opposite behavior to this is called coveteousness and idolotry.
1 peter 3:7. Likewise you husbands, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.
1 timothy 5:8. But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
I would say denying the faith makes one a spiritual adulterer , since there is no covenant here when one is unwilling to stay in covenant. Apostate , one who has left truth , proper teaching , upright actions .
You say that adultery can be many things, but when Jesus spoke of adultery as being an acceptable reason for divorce, did he mean it in the other ways or did he mean it in the traditional way?
I agree that anyone who abuses a spouse, be the abuser male or female, is not living up to the stadards of a Godly relationship.
The problem arises when we are looking for loop-holes by playing word games. I believe we should look to the intent. Did either Jesus or Paul intend to say what you are making them say through a rabbit trail?
Perhaps, perhaps not. Right now I am on the side of not. Having said that, I'm glad to see how you look at it.
I agree that anyone who abuses a spouse, be the abuser male or female, is not living up to the stadards of a Godly relationship.
The problem arises when we are looking for loop-holes by playing word games. I believe we should look to the intent. Did either Jesus or Paul intend to say what you are making them say through a rabbit trail?
Perhaps, perhaps not. Right now I am on the side of not. Having said that, I'm glad to see how you look at it.
AngelforChrist
New Member
John 6
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
I believe Christ was speaking both spiritually and physically . Im sorry but by any stretch of the imagination , spousal abuse does not fall under any of the fruits of the spirit .
Proverbs 13: 2. A man shall eat well by the fruit of his mouth, but the soul of the unfaithful feeds on violence.
Psalms 11: 5. The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Jeremiah 22:17. "Yet your eyes and your heart are for nothing but your covetousness, for shedding innocent blood, and practicing oppression and violence.'' <~~here God calls practising opression and violence- ie abuse- covetousness and covetousness is defined by the bible itself as being adultery .
Malachai 2: 10. Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another by profaning the covenant of the fathers? (shows that treacherous dealings is a covenant breaker
11. Judah has dealt treacherously, and an abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem, for Judah has profaned the Lord's holy institution which He loves: he has married the daughter of a foreign god.
12. May the Lord cut off from the tents of Jacob the man who does this, being awake and aware, and who brings an offering to the Lord of hosts.
13. And this is the second thing you do: you cover the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping and crying; so He does not regard the offering anymore, nor receive it with good will from your hands.
14. Yet you say, "For what reason?'' because the Lord has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you have dealt treacherously; yet she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
15. But did He not make them one, having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.
16. "For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce, for it covers one's garment with violence,'' says the Lord of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.''
God hates divorce , yet recognizes that this covenant was broken because of treachery in dealing with his wife - it is a warning NOT to abuse - God cuts OFF the covenant when this happens even though He hates divorce .
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
I believe Christ was speaking both spiritually and physically . Im sorry but by any stretch of the imagination , spousal abuse does not fall under any of the fruits of the spirit .
Proverbs 13: 2. A man shall eat well by the fruit of his mouth, but the soul of the unfaithful feeds on violence.
Psalms 11: 5. The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Jeremiah 22:17. "Yet your eyes and your heart are for nothing but your covetousness, for shedding innocent blood, and practicing oppression and violence.'' <~~here God calls practising opression and violence- ie abuse- covetousness and covetousness is defined by the bible itself as being adultery .
Malachai 2: 10. Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another by profaning the covenant of the fathers? (shows that treacherous dealings is a covenant breaker
11. Judah has dealt treacherously, and an abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem, for Judah has profaned the Lord's holy institution which He loves: he has married the daughter of a foreign god.
12. May the Lord cut off from the tents of Jacob the man who does this, being awake and aware, and who brings an offering to the Lord of hosts.
13. And this is the second thing you do: you cover the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping and crying; so He does not regard the offering anymore, nor receive it with good will from your hands.
14. Yet you say, "For what reason?'' because the Lord has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you have dealt treacherously; yet she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
15. But did He not make them one, having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.
16. "For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce, for it covers one's garment with violence,'' says the Lord of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.''
God hates divorce , yet recognizes that this covenant was broken because of treachery in dealing with his wife - it is a warning NOT to abuse - God cuts OFF the covenant when this happens even though He hates divorce .
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the only time that God ordered men to divorce their wives was because they married women who worshipped other gods, foreign wives? What was true of the nation of Israel is not necessarily true today. It was true that the citizens of Israel were not to be unequally yolked, but that is not the case today. Therefore we no longer have that reason to divorce.
As to the treachery named in Malachi, is it not divorce itself? It seems a bit hypocritical for you to use a biblical truth against divorce and twist it to support divorce.
As to the treachery named in Malachi, is it not divorce itself? It seems a bit hypocritical for you to use a biblical truth against divorce and twist it to support divorce.