Biblical Spirituality #2; Will the Son of man Find Faith, "in the Spirit & Power of Elijah"?

[Alan Dale Gross]

Humanistically speaking, it would indeed be very easy to offer a rosy unrealistic outlook on the world, but it would also be unjustifiable from the scriptures. There has always been the evangelization of a chosen few, a remnant of the world that is made righteous. And the closer to the end of the world that we come, this remnant will become smaller than ever. Because Satan will be loosed from the chains of his pit onto the world to deceive.

The work of the Church is to spread the gospel message to a world that is desperately in need of it. Its task is to shed light upon a world that will suffer the wrath of God. To bring a spiritual peace to a world that isn't ever going to have earthly peace, because the heart of mankind is desperately wicked. The world isn't going to get better, it will get (and has gotten) progressively worse, until the Lord returns to a world where love of God has grown so cold that there is rampant Apostasy.

Luke 18:8;

• "I tell you that He will avenge them speedily.

Nevertheless when the Son of man Cometh,
shall He find Faith on the earth?"

It's a rhetorical question illustrating the bankrupt nature of the world when Christ returns. He will return to a world where iniquity abounds because love of God has grown cold, and man in his arrogance thinks to rule himself in God's house. He will return to a world that has had Satan loosed upon it as judgment.

Jesus will return to a world where the Dragon has gathered the nations from the four corners of the earth together against God. This is the end of the matter. It will not be a golden age of worldwide bliss or of spiritual awakening of the world, but a world that is come under Judgment of God. There will be faith found only in the remnant.

While the Postmillennial view appeals to the humanity of man, the Premillennial view appeals to the traditions of man. It is basically an offshoot of the old Judaic tradition in the law-bound beliefs in nationalism, earthly governments, and genealogical glory. When studied carefully, it is both inconsistent and contradictory. Unfortunately, like its namesake Judaism, Premillennialism continually denies God's fulfillment of Old Testament prophesies (which scripture clearly declare have already been fulfilled).

Amillennialism gives us an authoritatively consistent and biblically tenable doctrine that doesn't undermine God's Word of fulfillment. We need a recognition in the Church that when God's Word says something is fulfilled (completed), then it's fulfilled.

And this makes perfect sense, because it testifies to the emphasis of God's Word on the inward man, the spiritual nature of Messiah's Kingdom, and of those who reign in it. It confirms that we are citizens of that Spiritual Kingdom (now), as prophesied, and presently reign in true peace as kings and priests unto our God.

Not in a carnal or political government in the middle eastern city of Jerusalem, but in a Spiritual Government that is upon Christ's shoulders, called The Kingdom of God, where Jesus Rules from Heaven, in His Spiritual Rule and Reign, from The Right Hand of The Throne of God, this very moment.

We are part of Jesus` Rule of the Spiritual City of Jerusalem from above, through our prayers to Him and His Lordship over our lives, working on earth in and through His Kingdom, for the advancementof The Cause of Christ, all around the world.

Earthly Jerusalem remains in bondage, rejecting this Spiritual Rule of Christ over those who are Jesus` kings and priests, seated in Heavenly Places, as His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, serving with Jesus in The Kingdom of God, as He Reigns from the Jerusalem which is above, the mother of us all;

Galatians 4:25-26;

• "For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
• But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Note: That is Bible.

We are Ruled in a Spiritual Government, called The Kingdom of God, wherein we are subjects who obey the laws thereof "in Christ," who Rules over us, in His Spiritual Rule and Reign from Heaven, now, by the Power and Authority of The Lord God of The Universe.

Amillennialism is the Historic End Times System of Interpretation, from The New Testaments times, to Augustine and the Early Church Fathers, and the Early decades of The Lord`s churches, and held throughout every Century, until the present, throughout the entire New Testament Gospel Era, we call The Church Age, in which "every point" can be unambiguously justified with scripture quoted word for word.

The only detail that can even be honestly debatable as not "explicitly" stated in scripture, is the spiritual length of the time of the one thousand years. And even this belief is made abundantly clear by the context, the nature of the millennium, and other scriptures that deal with the subject of the reign of Christ. i.e., when compared with all other scriptures, it is seen to be God breathed and the only possible way that the one thousand years can be understood.

To use an analogy, if you are told to go south for ten miles, then west for ten miles, and then north ten miles, it doesn't take a Ph.D. to figure out that your position must be ten miles west of your starting point. Even though you are not explicitly told that you are ten miles west of where you started, it is the "only" possible place you can be, considering your movements.

Likewise, God has given us all the information needed to understand what is the New Covenant Millennial reign of Christ, spoken of in Revelation chapter twenty. The problem is not that the evidence is not there, the problem is in Church indoctrination and traditions. And ironically, many theologians that claim they take the scriptures very literally, have accused those of us who literally follow these scriptures concerning the reign of Christ, of following tradition instead. Nevertheless, we know that:

"If God inspired it written, it cannot be man's private interpretation, it's God's explanation. And if God, through His word, reveals what was hidden, it cannot be man's personal creation, it's God's light of illumination."-WiseManSay

A fundamental principle of sound hermeneutics is that no scripture can be looked upon as "not true." God's Word is inerrant so that even the difficult passages that we may not yet understand, we must unquestionably receive as true.

This is exactly How it all Works out, perfectly;

Our understanding has to be brought into agreement with what is written. e.g., John the Baptist said He was not Elijah (John 1:21). But Jesus said if we will receive it, this was Elijah which was prophesied to come.

Which declaration of scripture is the truth? Is this a mystery?

The answer is, both statements are truth, because John was not the Elijah who lived years before, but He was the Elijah that was prophesied to come before Christ.

So shall we wave our hands in the air and condemn Christ for "spiritualizing" a clear prophecy calling for Elijah to come before Christ? Of course not, but this is often how Premillennialists react to God's Word when it is to be understood spiritually.

Luke 1:17

• "And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Thus the answer is not in stubbornly insisting that Elijah literally be reincarnated in another body to fulfill scripture according to tradition, but in our "receiving" the testimony of the whole of scripture.

We discern by the Spirit of God that the prophesy was for one to come walking in the same spirit and power that Elijah (Elias) did. Both the witness of John, and the witness of Jesus was true. But scripture has to be defined and interpreted by God, not modern day teachers or by traditions.

Let God define His own terms.
As righteous Joseph declared of mysteries:

"..do not interpretations
belong to God?"
-Genesis 40:8?

Indeed they do. So we must read scripture with the mind of Christ 1st Corinthians 2:16, that we humbly receive what God has inspired written, rather than choose to ignore it or twist it for our own purposes. It should never be about what we think is right, just by using our unaided human reasoning, but always prayerfully about what God says.

 

[timtofly]

The Amil view directly contradicts Matthew 25:31.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

When people generalize what the different eschatological views are, they don't describe every person on earth. Even Premil have points that contradict Scripture.

There are Premil who agree that Jesus has power and authority now, sitting at the right hand of God in heaven. Still no reason to contradict what Jesus said in Matthew 25.

Should we interpret this verse to say Jesus has not been sitting on a throne in heaven, but will start sitting at the Second Coming?

How can the Amil theory be Scriptural if there are verses in Scripture that Amil explicitly contradicts?

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The Amil view directly contradicts Matthew 25:31.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

When people generalize what the different eschatological views are, they don't describe every person on earth. Even Premil have points that contradict Scripture.

There are Premil who agree that Jesus has power and authority now, sitting at the right hand of God in heaven. Still no reason to contradict what Jesus said in Matthew 25.

Should we interpret this verse to say Jesus has not been sitting on a throne in heaven, but will start sitting at the Second Coming?

How can the Amil theory be Scriptural if there are verses in Scripture that Amil explicitly contradicts?

What are you thinking that somebody is saying that contradicts something else?

You say explicitly something in there somewhere maybe but I don't see one thing or another you think is right or wrong either way that you say you believe or something someone else does.

 

[timtofly]

What are you thinking that somebody is saying that contradicts something else?

You say explicitly something in there somewhere maybe but I don't see one thing or another you think is right or wrong either way that you say you believe or something someone else does.

The point is that at the Second Coming, Jesus will physically be on this earth and this creation to sit on His glorious throne in a Temple in Jerusalem.

Just as physically as Messiah who was physically crucified on a Cross, was buried, and physically rose from the dead.

You accept the first coming, but deny the Second Coming. Both are equally physical and on this earth.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The point is that at the Second Coming, Jesus will physically be on this earth and this creation to sit on His glorious throne in a Temple in Jerusalem.

With no Bible verses that teach anything like that?

Is this, below, the only reasoning you have to come up with that?

Just as physically as Messiah who was physically crucified on a Cross, was buried, and physically rose from the dead.

That's some formula. That's it?

You accept the first coming, but deny the Second Coming. Both are equally physical and on this earth.

Have you ever looked in The Bible where Jesus would be Reigning on Earth,
during "a thousand years", in Revelation 20:1-6? Is it there?

Is Jesus Going to be Demoted from His Heavenly Throne to a Throne here on Earth? No, There Will Be No Earthly Throne of Jesus.

There Will Be No Earthly Throne of Jesus. — The Three Key “Throne” Prophecies. Is Jesus going to be demoted from His Heavenly Throne to a Throne here on Earth? It cannot happen. There are three Prophetic statements that Jesus Christ would break if He were to Reign on David’s throne in...

www.baptistboard.com

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The Amil view directly contradicts Matthew 25:31.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Are you making an assumption that this sitting Jesus will do
"upon the Throne of His Glory", will be on Earth? Why?

There are Premil who agree that Jesus has power and authority now, sitting at the right hand of God in heaven. Still no reason to contradict what Jesus said in Matthew 25.

How would Jesus having Power and Authority now, sitting at the Right Hand of God in Heaven contradict Matthew 25?

Should we interpret this verse to say Jesus has not been sitting on a throne in heaven, but will start sitting at the Second Coming?

On the contrary, the interpretation of the verse is simply that Jesus has been sitting on His Throne in Heaven, and will be more clearly seen and known to "sit upon the Throne of His Glory", for all the Universe to see.

 

[timtofly]

With no Bible verses that teach anything like that?

There are Bible verses. You just interpret them as your human theology demands they be interpreted.

In Matthew 25, you deny the word "then".

In Matthew 13, you deny Jesus is personally sowing the seed on the earth.

Now you have a thread assuming Jesus has been or will be demoted, every time Jesus is on the earth. Philippians 2:5-10

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

Do you claim it was an error on God's part to become human flesh?

Jesus was still God while on the earth as Messiah, and will still be God on the earth at the Second Coming as the Prince to come. Both physical appearances on the earth will take place per Daniel 9.

Is God being like us that much different than we being like God? Should God have never placed His image on the earth in human form on the 6th day? The sons of God were not God, but they existed as God's image. The first advent was not God becoming man, but necessary for the restoration of man back into the image of God. The first advent was God putting on the image form that was created on the 6th day. Jesus is both the image of God and God. The only individual with that definition and distinction.

It was not robbery to be equally human, just as it was not robbery to be equally God. But Jesus was not in Adam's fallen image. Jesus was not a sinner in need of salvation to restore Himself back to being God. There was no "demotion" as you put it to be physically upon the earth. Nor is there a "demotion" to physically represent on earth, what Jesus is equally to God in heaven at the Second Coming.

The part of no reputation and being humbled and obedient to the Cross, was the pre-Cross process from Birth to Resurrection. That does not have to be repeated again at the Second Coming. God on earth is still God on the earth.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The point is that at the Second Coming, Jesus will physically be on this earth and this creation to sit on His glorious throne in a Temple in Jerusalem.

With no Bible verses that teach anything like that?

Are you making an assumption that this sitting Jesus will do
"upon the Throne of His Glory", will be on Earth? Why?

In Matthew 13, you deny Jesus is personally sowing the seed on the earth.

What would sowing seeds in the Earth have to do with the Time of Jesus' Second Coming, when the Time of sowing seed will be over, according to all of Matthew 13?

Matthew 13 is the most perfect place to have The Lord show you, Himself, that when He Comes The Second Time to Earth, THAT WILL BE THE END OF TIME, THE END OF THE WORLD, THE GREAT CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE AND of all things of ALL AGES ON EARTH, AND THE END OF PLANET EARTH.

The individual saints who are able to receive Jesus' Teaching on the End of The World are called "scribes" by Him here; who He says are like, "an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."

Did you ever know that Jesus calls some of His followers, "scribes"?

Jesus names mention of who He calls, "scribes", in the middle of Matthew 13.

13:51; "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto Him, Yea, Lord.

13:52; "Then said He unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."

They are those saints who have been able to bring forth out of The Lord's treasure that He has given them in The Bible, by His Words, "things new and old", which is their ability to discern and bring out the truths of The Old Testament and The New Testament.

I am a "scribe". Some of the most difficult passages of scripture in The Bible, such as Daniel 9, Matthew 24, and Revelation 20, are well understood by me, with regard to what God meant for His Revealed Word to be saying to His children and I can teach them to others.

13:43b; "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Do you want to be seen as a "scribe", by Jesus Christ?

Now, that you know for the first time that there is such a thing?

Then, you will need to become well versed in Daniel 9, Matthew 24, and Revelation 20 and what they say, not what men think that they might say, which isn't in them, at all.

Matthew 13 is the most perfect place from The Word of God, to have The Lord Jesus show you, Himself, that when He Comes The Second Time to Earth, THAT WILL BE THE END OF TIME, THE END OF THE WORLD, THE GREAT CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE AND all things of ALL AGES ON EARTH, AND THE END OF PLANET EARTH.

(In other words, there is, of course, no reference to any one thousand years on Earth, in Matthew 13, any more than there is in any other verses in The Bible.)

At the Time of Jesus' Second Coming, is when the Time of sowing seed will be over, AND THE END OF THE WORLD, according to all of Matthew 13

13:30b; "in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

13:39; "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."


13:47; "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48; "Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 "So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 "And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

And yet, 13:57; "...they were offended in Him. But Jesus said unto them, A Prophet is not without Honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

58; "And He did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief."

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Now you have a thread assuming Jesus has been or will be demoted, every time Jesus is on the earth. Philippians 2:5-10

To bring Himself to be on a Throne on Earth, which is never spoken of in The Bible as ever going to happen, is a demotion from Him being on His Throne in Heaven.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

Jesus is The Lord God of The Universe which includes, "That at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;".

"That at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow", does not amount to the fabrication of a fictitious "Throne on Earth", out of thin air, by the imaginary fiat creation in their head, by men who are just making things up that aren't written there.

Do you claim it was an error on God's part to become human flesh?

Try not to brag on your ignorance, man.

Jesus was still God while on the earth as Messiah, and will still be God on the earth at the Second Coming as the Prince to come. Both physical appearances on the earth will take place per Daniel 9.

The Prince came and died, was buried, and rose again to "finish the transgression", etc., etc., to make an end to "visions and prophecy", and to Baptise with The Holy Spirit, or Immerse, His church at Jerusalem, The Most Holy Place, with the Shikinah Glory, once and for all on The Day of Pentecost;

24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Messiah the Prince came to be born of a virgin, on Earth, at Jesus' First Coming;

25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

The Messiah was cut off at His crucifixion;

26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"

then The Destruction of Jerusalem is mentioned here, A.D.70;

"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The "desolations" spoken of by Daniel there were also spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24, in answer to the Disciples' question about when the Temple would be destroyed, when Jesus, "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary", did so under the guise of the Roman army, through which Jesus' Power and Glory were shown, in exacting and executing Providential Judgment to Punish and Destroy the people who crucified Him, there, as well as the Temple.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

There was no "demotion" as you put it to be physically upon the earth.

I never said anything about Jesus' Humiliation as The Incarnant Son of God, being a demotion or not a demotion. No reference is being made to His First Advent on Earth.

Nor is there a "demotion" to physically represent on earth, what Jesus is equally to God in heaven at the Second Coming.

There is also no mention of Jesus "to physically represent on earth,...at the Second Coming", in The Bible.

God on earth is still God on the earth.

The God-man, Jesus was as much God on Earth, as He ever was, and yet the leap from Jesus being God on Earth, to assuming that somehow, without any mention of it in The Bible, "Jesus will Rule on a Throne on Earth at His Second Coming", falls as short of reality, as someone trying to throw a rock from New York City and expecting it to land in Europe. That theory falls as short as that rock does.

 

[timtofly]

The Prince came and died, was buried, and rose again to "finish the transgression", etc., etc., to make an end to "visions and prophecy", and to Baptise with The Holy Spirit, or Immerse, His church at Jerusalem, The Most Holy Place, with the Shikinah Glory, once and for all on The Day of Pentecost;

The Messiah came as the Lamb in the first century.

The Prince to come happens after Jerusalem was destroyed. The Second Coming has not happened yet. That is when the King sits on the throne in Jerusalem as the prophecied Prince to come.

 

[timtofly]

I never said anything about Jesus' Humiliation as The Incarnant Son of God, being a demotion or not a demotion. No reference is being made to His First Advent on Earth.

There is also no mention of Jesus "to physically represent on earth,...at the Second Coming", in The Bible.

The God-man, Jesus was as much God on Earth, as He ever was, and yet the leap from Jesus being God on Earth, to assuming that somehow, without any mention of it in The Bible, "Jesus will Rule on a Throne on Earth at His Second Coming", falls as short of reality, as someone trying to throw a rock from New York City and expecting it to land in Europe. That theory falls as short as that rock does.

Of course Daniel mentions the Prince to come part on the earth, as much as the Messiah to come part was on the earth.

Why would one prophecy be totally different than the other? They are in the very same verse.

Both Messiah and Prince to come part take place physically on the earth.

 

[Silverhair]

I never said anything about Jesus' Humiliation as The Incarnant Son of God, being a demotion or not a demotion. No reference is being made to His First Advent on Earth.

There is also no mention of Jesus "to physically represent on earth,...at the Second Coming", in The Bible.

The God-man, Jesus was as much God on Earth, as He ever was, and yet the leap from Jesus being God on Earth, to assuming that somehow, without any mention of it in The Bible, "Jesus will Rule on a Throne on Earth at His Second Coming", falls as short of reality, as someone trying to throw a rock from New York City and expecting it to land in Europe. That theory falls as short as that rock does.

You keep saying that there is no scripture that shows Jesus as being on the earth at the Second Coming. Have you not read
Zec 14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Zec 14:4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

Zec 14:8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

When is Christ going to fight the nation? Was there some other time that the Mount of Olives was split in two?

Will Jesus not be present and rule from His new Jerusalem?

Rev_21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God...

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Of course Daniel mentions the Prince to come part on the earth, as much as the Messiah to come part was on the earth.

Why would one prophecy be totally different than the other? They are in the very same verse.

Daniel 9:25
"Messiah the Prince." Looks like they are One in the Same, Himself, for sure.

Make a note of that, if you would.

Both Messiah and Prince to come part take place physically on the earth.

Yes, He did and He sure did, for sure.

 

[timtofly]

Daniel 9:25
"Messiah the Prince." Looks like they are One in the Same, Himself, for sure.

Make a note of that, if you would.

Yes, He did and He sure did, for sure.

Was the Messiah part when Jesus was a toddler? Jesus was also a toddler, one in the same, no?

Jesus was on the earth for over 33 years, but never sat on a throne during that time as a Prince.

You are the one denying that Jesus will ever physically return to the earth.

Jesus was cut off, and never completed all of His earthly ministry. He did complete the toddler part, so that does not need revisited. He did complete the Messiah part, so that does not need revisited. Yet somehow you have not proven that sitting as Prince has been completed on the earth.

Nothing in Daniel 9 hints that these things take place in heaven.

Besides, the Prince to come part was after Jerusalem was destroyed. Messiah was not attached to the "to come" aspect.

Jesus would be both Messiah and Prince. But no verse says "the Messiah to come" in it.

"unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks"

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary."

The verse does not say Messiah and Prince are cut off. The verse says Messiah shall be cut off, and then "the prince that shall come", since Jesus promised He would return to the earth.

The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus is King over every nation. The 7th Trumpet did not sound in the weeks following the Resurrection.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Much Truth Revealed by God in The Bible has not been seen and appreciated by some of His children, yet, as the casualty of them simply not interpreting the PASSAGES by the Letter and the Spirit, LITERALLY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, since, according to 1 Corinthians 15:46, the “natural” (i.e., physical) events and institutions of OT history were meant to picture Spiritual NT Realities, we cannot assume that the specific forms of suffering mentioned here will come to pass by the literal letter of what is written, because as we just saw, they are literally to be interpreted by the literal Spirit of what is written, according to the NCH (The New Covenant Hermeneutic, interpreting the way the writers of The New Testament interpreted Prophecy), with literal interpretation of literature of any kind also including both the literal letter and literal Spirit of what is written being expressed in symbolic or figurative language.

Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, by E.W. Bullinger, London, 1898 gives a hypertext outline of Bullinger's reference work, with links leading to some of the 217 full entries of figures of speech in The Bible, in the Silva Rhetoricae for each of the figures discussed.

Fairbairn, Patrick – Prophecy Viewed in Respect to its Distinctive Nature, Special Function & Proper Interpretation (1856) Fairbairn was a minister and professor in the Free Church of Scotland. *** – “A standard work by one who is at home with the subject.” – Spurgeon.

My notes are adapted from:
Jerusalem In That Day: Interpreting Zechariah 12-14.
Note: This article is an excerpt from a theological work now completed,
entitled The High King of Heaven:
Discovering the Master Keys to the Great End-Time Debate
(Redemption Press, 2014).

Before, I obtained a copy of this book, I borrowed it from the library so many times that I felt like I was lending it back to them. I've read it four times. He lays out a lot of great stuff in there.

There is also no mention of Jesus "to physically represent on earth,...at the Second Coming", in The Bible.

“The Last Battle” (14:1-2). Here Zechariah picks up a theme first mentioned in 12:1-9, bringing it to its logical conclusion: The age-long warfare between the Church and the World will culminate in a final, decisive clash between the two."

You keep saying that there is no scripture that shows Jesus as being on the earth at the Second Coming. Have you not read

Zec 14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.

"Indeed, verse 1 sounds the note of final victory at the very outset, a note that resonates throughout the entire chapter: In the end, God will effect a great inversion, such that the manifold “goods” maliciously taken from his people—their work, their property, their health, their honor, their right to public worship, their very lives—will be restored to them once and for all (Matthew 10:29-30; Luke 6:20-26; Hebrews 10:34). Like Israel’s heroes of old, Christ will plunder the plunderers and will cause the meek who trust in him to inherit the land (Genesis 14:1ff; 1 Samuel 30:1f; Psalms 37:9, 11; Matthew 5:5)."

Zec 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.

"Verse 2 gives us the Last Battle itself. As elsewhere, so here: The Spirit uses images drawn from Israel’s long history of attack by hostile nations to picture the final assault of a consolidated world system against the visible Church (Psalm 48; Ezekiel 38-39; Revelation 20:9). God himself, through the secret workings of his Providence, will bring it to pass, in part to sanctify the Bride of Christ, in part to move sinners to repentance (13:9; Ezekiel 38:4; Ephesians 5:27; 2 Thessalonians 1:3f, 2:3; Revelation 13:5-10)."

The essential message of this text, in Zechariah, text is simply that a Satanically controlled global State will maliciously and effectively suppress—though not completely destroy—the visible Churches of The Lord Jesus, and yet, in exactly what way, we do not know (2 Thessalonians 2:1ff; Revelation 13:5-10)."

"Nevertheless, Zechariah 14:2, pervasive NT teaching, Church history, and current events themselves all agree in reminding us that God has indeed appointed His children to holy tribulation and that the purifying fires of Last Battle will be nearly as intense as any they have ever known (Acts 14:22; 1 Thessalonians 3:1-5; 2 Timothy 3:12; Hebrews 11:35-40; Revelation 11:7-13) similar, but not as Great as that Great Tribulation suffered by The Jews at the destruction of Jerusalem, in A.D. 70. Thankfully, that tribulation will be as brief as it is intense, and will be followed immediately by joy unspeakable and full of glory."

Zec 14:3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

When is Christ going to fight the nation?

The Day of the LORD (14:3-5).

"According to the NT, it is Christ Himself Who will bring the Last Battle to a close at His Parousia, when He arrives in power and glory in the skies above the Earth to destroy His enemies and to Glorify both his people and their world (Matthew 13:36-43, 1 Corinthians 15:20-28; 2 Thessalonians 1, 2; 2 Peter 3; Revelation 11:11-19, 14:14-20, 16:17-21, 19:11-21, 20:7-15). According to the NCH, the snapshot before us is a symbolic picture of that very thing. Let us see if our text—and its context—justifies this important conclusion."

"Verse 3 tells us that at the time of “Jerusalem’s” eschatological agony, the LORD himself will go forth and fight against her foes, even as He did on many previous occasions in Israel’s history (Exodus 14:1ff, 15:1-18; Isaiah 36-37; Revelation 15:2-3). This will be the last of them, the Great and Notable Day of the LORD. However, from the NT we know that the Day of the LORD will in fact be the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ at his Parousia (2 Corinthians 1:14; Philippians 2:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:4, 10). Therefore, this particular snapshot is indeed fulfilled at Christ’s Parousia, and must be interpreted accordingly."

Zec 14:4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

"Verse 4 pictures the LORD Creating an unexpected Way of Escape for His people; verse 5 pictures them using it. This is God’s Way with all His people, both OT and New (1 Corinthians 10:13). Quite intentionally, the imagery used here reminds us of how God Miraculously Delivered Israel at the Red Sea (Exodus 14:1ff).

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

"In His City, and as His City, they will ever rejoice, not only in the hour of their Salvation—their own, personal Rescue from the Domain of Darkness—, but also in the subsequent Faithfulness of God, who, through Christ, by the Spirit, Led them Safely through the deadly wilderness of “this present evil age,”

"and into
The Promised Land of The New Heavens and the New Earth
(John 6:38-40; Galatians 1:4; Philippians 1:6; Revelation 12:7-17, 19:11).

Zec 14:8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

"Our first mini-snapshot (vv. 6-8) points to a radical transformation of the physical Heavens, a transformation that the NT says will occur at “the Restoration of all things,” when Christ Returns (Matthew 19:28; Acts 3:21; Romans 8:21; Philippians 3:21)...The result, for God’s people, will be something altogether new: a ‘Day” that is neither day nor night as we once knew them, but an Eternal Day whose exact nature is known only to the LORD.

"Happily, the NT sheds further light on this mysterious promise, teaching us that it is Christ Himself who will “diminish” the luminaries at his Parousia (2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:13); that in the World to Come, the Glory of God and the Lamb will illumine all things, both inwardly and outwardly (Revelation 21:11, 23, 22:5); and that this “unique” eschatological Day will stand as a perpetual testimony and reminder: Because of Christ, the Domain of Darkness has passed away once and for all (Romans 13:12)."

Zec 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

"Verse 8 reprises the great OT theme of the eschatological River of God (Psalms 46:4, 65:9; Ezekiel 47:1-12; Joel 3:18). The Living Waters are, of course, the Very Life of the Living God, Streaming into the New Creation from God the Father, through Christ the Son, by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:33; Philippians 1:19). Interestingly, the prophet sees them flowing out of (New) Jerusalem; that is, out of the Churches, the Eternal people of God (Revelation 21:2). He also sees that the river will flow both east and west, filling the seas on either side of the City, both in summer and in winter (i.e., year-round). However, Revelation 21:1 tells us there will be no seas in the World to Come; meanwhile, Zechariah 14:6-7 (along with several texts in the Revelation) assures us there will be no seasons."

"The meaning, then, is figurative and theological: In that Day, the Life of God will continually replenish the Creation of God through the people of God (see Romans 8:20-23)."

Was there some other time that the Mount of Olives was split in two?

Importantly, verse 4 is not telling us that Christ will literally stand upon the Mount of Olives; or that He will literally split it apart to create a literal valley.

"Similarly, verse 5 is not predicting that literal Jews of a physical Jerusalem will flee to the tiny village of Azel.

"Those who take this approach are falling into confusion by abandoning the NCH, which teaches us to interpret this prophecy figuratively, in terms of NT truth."

Will Jesus not be present and rule from His new Jerusalem?

Yes, as you ask, The New Jerusalem.

Rev_21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God...

"Here, I believe, is the key to understanding this Prophecy, a Prophecy designed to comfort devout OT saints with a picture of the Eternal Worship of the Glorified Churches, cast in the language and imagery of Israel’s most joyful OT Feast!

How exactly does this work? To begin with, we learn that Zechariah’s eschatological Feast of Booths will indeed be a Harvest Feast, since there, in the World to Come, all the saints will have been gathered in at last (Matthew 13:30; John 4:38; Revelation 14:14-16). Formerly, they were indeed enemies of God and His people; but Christ, prior to the Judgment, Harvested them through the Gospel and turned them into Eternal friends (Matthew 9:37; Acts 26:17-18; Romans 5:8; 1 Timothy 1:12-12; Titus 3:3f).

"It will also be an Everlasting Feast: The saints will forever “go up” in Worship, through Christ, unto God their King (1 Peter 2:5; Revelation 7:9-10, 14:1-4).

"In His City, and as His City, they will ever rejoice, not only in the hour of their Salvation—their own, personal Rescue from the Domain of Darkness—, but also in the subsequent Faithfulness of God, who, through Christ, by the Spirit, Led them Safely through the deadly wilderness of “this present evil age,”

"and into The Promised Land of The New Heavens and the New Earth
(John 6:38-40; Galatians 1:4; Philippians 1:6; Revelation 12:7-17, 19:11).

But what of Egypt, and of the families of the Earth that follow Egypt’s lead in refusing to go up? Clearly, these typify all men and nations who refused to participate in the eschatological exodus; who refused to accept Spiritual Rescue from the Domain of Darkness, and Spiritual transfer into The Kingdom of God’s Beloved Son (Colossians 1:13); who refused to follow in the footsteps of Moses, who considered the reproach that fell upon Christ to be greater riches than all the treasures of Egypt (i.e., the fallen world-system); and who refused to walk with Christ through the wilderness of this world to The Promised Land (Hebrews 11:26; Revelation 12:1f).

"Puzzlingly, in the Prophecy, we see these rebellious nations in the Earth, but far from Zion and Jerusalem, where the friends of God celebrate the Feasts of God. But in the Revelation, the puzzle is solved:

"In The World to Come, where the prophecy is fulfilled, we once again see these nations far from Jerusalem—outside the gates of the Holy City— , but this time in the Lake of Fire (Isaiah 66:24; Revelation 20:14, 22:15).

"It is, therefore, in death (and hell) that the impenitent enemies of God will experience the very plague of drought they chose for themselves in life, when they refused to drink of the Rock, and to follow the Rock, that God offered them in the Gospel.

"And that Rock is Christ (Matthew 12:43 NAS, Luke 16:24; John 7:37; 1 Corinthians 10:4; Revelation 21:6, 22:17)."

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Nothing in Daniel 9 hints that these things take place in heaven.

Yeah, I don't know of anyone saying that they did.

Besides, the Prince to come part was after Jerusalem was destroyed.

Nope, that may be rushing to a conclusion.

Messiah was not attached to the "to come" aspect.

Right.

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary."

We must, of course, look to the words themselves to guide us to the information we are seeking; and those words are all we need. We are accustomed to regard the term “the Messiah” as merely a name or a title, but in fact it is a descriptive Hebrew word meaning “the Anointed (One)”. In Greek the word Christos has the same meaning.

Therefore, we have, only to ask, when was Jesus of Nazareth presented to Israel as the Anointed One? As to this we are not left in any doubt whatever, for it was an event of the greatest importance in the Life of Jesus our Lord, as well as in the dealings of God with Israel, and in the history of the world, an event which is made prominent in all the four Gospels.

It was at His baptism in Jordan that our Lord was “Anointed” for His Ministry; because then it was that the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily shape its a dove. The Apostle Peter bears witness that “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with Power” (Acts 10:38).

This is clear and explicit to the point that, when the years of Israel’s history had unrolled to that Marvelous Day on which Father, Son and Holy Spirit were simultaneously manifested to the senses of men, it brought them “unto the Messiah.”

After His return to Galilee in the Power of the Spirit, He came to Nazareth where He had been brought up, and going into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, He read from the Prophet Isaiah these striking words: “The Spirit, of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath ANOINTED Me to preach the gospel to the poor”; — and after He had closed, the book He said, “This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears” (Luke 4:16–21). Thus the Lord declared Himself to be, at that time, the “Anointed” One, that is, “the Messiah”.

The verse does not say Messiah and Prince are cut off. The verse says Messiah shall be cut off, and then "the prince that shall come", since Jesus promised He would return to the earth.

"the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"
Many of the Jewish writers themselves, such as Aben Ezra, Jarchi, Abarbinel, and Jacchiades, interpret "the prince that shall come", as being Vespasian, that is, "the people of" the Romans, under Vespasian their prince, emperor, and general, who would, in a little time after the cutting off of the Messiah, enter into the land of Judea, and destroy the City of Jerusalem, and the Temple that stood in it, A.D. 70..

That is simply the literal letter of "the prince", as being Vespasion.

While Jesus was speaking to the Disciples, in Matthew 24, about when the Destruction of Jerusalem and The Temple would take place, the Disciples thought that after The Temple was Destroyed, Jesus was going Take Up His Personal Lordship and Reign on Earth, in the First Century. That is what they were asking Him for a sign about, when they had asked Jesus, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming", meaning, "Tell us when The Temple will be distroyed" and then, "what shall be the sign of Thy coming, to Take Up Your Personal Lordship and Reign on Earth".

For one thing, by reading His answer as being something that was going to be Fulfilled during that time period when that generation was not going to pass before they happened, places Jesus' Words to them as talking about events in the First Century.

Secondly, Jesus doesn't answer the Disciples question, about when He would Come, as talking about Him Coming to Take Up His Personal Lordship and Reign on Earth, after The Temple was distroyed in the First Century, but Jesus answered them instead about when He would be Coming in Provedential Judgment on The Jews, USING Vespasion and his Roman armies, in A.D. 70.

So, there is nothing in Jesus' Words, in that portion of Matthew 24, that refers to His Second Coming, at all. Nor, is Daniel 9:26 speaking of Jesus being the "prince that shall come", nor is that passage referring to Jesus' Second Coming.

And "the prince that shall come", has to do with Vespation, although the simbolic application of that interpretation surly lends itself to consider the fact that The Messiah the Prince did also Come, as He told the Disciples He would, in His Power, and in a Way of Judgment upon the Jewish nation, and destroy them for their rejection of Him, AS JESUS CAME IN JUDGMENT UPON THEM, USING "the people of the prince", Vespasion and his Roman armies who would all be Ultimately under Jesus' Direction, and it was Ultimately by Jesus' Orders, all these Judgments were to be Brought upon the Jews, at that time.

Still, of course, "the people of the prince shall come", in Daniel 9:26 and "what shall be the sign of Thy coming", Matthew 24:4-34, are both referring The Destruction of Jerusalem and The Temple, in A.D.70, and so neither is making any reference to Jesus' Second Coming to Earth, provided we are reading those passages literally.

I know that might be hard to take, but that is the only way to read those passages literally, and not just in a way where we see a couple of words and take off and run with them, because that leaves us having to ingnore the context they are in and makes erasing and ignoring other words and verses around them nessasary and to be putting them off, as if they all don't mean anything where they are written, and we can just automatically say, "Oh well, they are just about the Future that doesn't matter to us now, anyway."

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus is King over every nation.

Dunno, why you mentioned these things.

When we read Revelation literally, we can't help but unearth the organic Structure
in the manner in which the Book was witten and, therefore,
the only way in which it is intended to, or able to, be correctly interpreted
is what William Hendricksen explains as his Proposition 1,
in his book, More than Conquerors;

Proposition I. The Book of Revelation consists of Seven Sections.
They are Parallel and each Spans the Entire New Testament Age,
from the First to the Second Coming of Christ.

See;
More than Conqurors.
CHAPTER TWO
GENERAL ANALYSIS, pg. 16
I. THE SEVEN PARALLEL SECTIONS.

Conversely, the shortsighted, knee-jerk reaction, approach
to interpreteing The Book of Revelation, by begining in Chapter One
and reading through it, one Chapter after another, to Chapter 22,
as if the events it records are following along in that kind of linear sequence,
goes directly against the grain of its inherent Structure

and can only result in anti-biblical notions and fantastic ideas,
which are in total opposition to God's Meaning for Revealing His Revelation to us,
in Seven Parallel Vision, which each cover the same period of time,
from Jesus' First Advent to and His Ascension from Earth,
to His Second Coming when He Returns in Judgment, at The End of Time.

The 7th Trumpet did not sound in the weeks following the Resurrection.

"7. 'The Seventh Trumpet (11: 15-19).

"The Seventh Angel Trumpets. Again, the Final Judgment is not described but introduced. Moreover, the significance of the Judgment Day with respect to God, His Christ, believers and unbelievers is pointed out.

"Notice the double chorus. First, the Angels sing. In the spirit the apostle hears their glorious, soulful, swelling anthem of praise and adoration. ‘The dominion over the world became the Dominion of our Lord and of His Christ; and He shall Reign Forever and Ever. ’

"To be sure, God always Reigns. Yet that Power and Authority which He Exercises with respect to the Universe is not always apparent. At times it seems as if Satan is the supreme ruler. But once the Judgment Day has arrived, the full Royal Splendour of God's Sovereignty will be revealed, for all opposition will then be abolished. Then it will be clear to all that the world has become the Province of our Lord and of His Christ. And He shall Reign for ever and ever.

"When the Judgment Day arrives, then the full meaning of Psalm 2: 7 ff., and of Daniel 7: 14 (cf. Lk. 1: 33) is going to be revealed. See chapter IV, p. 35. The term rendered ‘kingdom’ in our English translation often means kingship, rule, dominion, sovereignty. See the author’s Sermon on the Mount, p. 31.

The entire Redeemed multitude, represented by the twentyfour elders, responds to this song of the Angels by rendering homage to God in the most humble manner—the elders fall on their faces—and by saying ‘We render thanks unto thee, O Lord God, the Almighty, The One Who is and The One Who was, because Thou hast taken Thy Power, The Great One, and didst begin to Reign.

"And the heathen were wroth, and it came: Thy wrath and the Season for the dead to be Judged, and to Give the Reward to Thy servants, the Prophets, and to the saints and to those fearing Thy Name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the Earth’ (n: 17, 18).

"Observe that in this anthem the Lord is no longer called
‘the One Who Is and Who Was and Who is to Come’, as in 1: 8, for He has Come. The Church rejoices in the fact that the Lord has reached the Zenith of His Power and Authority, now publicly displayed.

"The heathen were furious; they had made war with the witnesses, conquered them, killed them, and gloated over their misery (11: 7 if. ). But at last God's Wrath became fully revealed, namely, on The Day of Final Judgment which has now arrived. On that same Day all those who fear the Lord Receive their Reward, while the destroyers are destroyed (cf. Mt. 25: 31 ff. ).

"In order to understand the final paragraph of this chapter be sure to remember that this is still a Vision. The apostle sees not Heaven itself but a symbolic picture. In this picture the Sanctuary of God in Heaven is now wide open. Nothing remains veiled. Nothing remains hidden or concealed. The Ark of the Covenant, so long hidden from view, is now seen. That Ark of the Covenant is the symbol of the superlatively real, intimate, and perfect fellowship between God and His people—a fellowship based on the Atonement.

"Think of the Mercy-Seat. We read in Exodus 25: 22,
‘And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy-seat... ’ Hence, when this Ark is now seen, that is, fully revealed, the Covenant of Grace (Gn. 17: 7) in all its sweetness is realized in the hearts and lives of God’s children.

"But for the wicked that same Ark, which is God’s Throne, is a symbol of Wrath. Also this Wrath will now be fully revealed. Because of this there follow' flashes of lightning, and rumbling and peals of thunder, and quaking, and a great hail-storm (cf. 4: 5)·"

More than Conquerors, pg. 132 ff.

Much Truth Revealed by God in The Bible has not been seen and appreciated by some of His children, yet, as the casualty of them simply not interpreting the PASSAGES by the Letter and the Spirit, LITERALLY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, since, according to 1 Corinthians 15:46, the “natural” (i.e., physical) events and institutions of OT history were meant to picture Spiritual NT Realities, we can't assume everything we read in Revelation should be interpreted by the literal letter of what is written, because as we just saw, they are literally to be interpreted by the literal Spirit of what is written, according to the NCH (The New Covenant Hermeneutic, interpreting the way the writers of The New Testament interpreted Prophecy), with literal interpretation of literature of any kind also including both the literal letter and literal Spirit of what is written at times being expressed in symbolic or figurative language.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Besides, the Prince to come part was after Jerusalem was destroyed.

The prince came to destroy Jerusalem.

Again, "Who is “The Prince That Shall Come”?

At this point we are confronted with a question which very seriously affects the interpretation of the Prophecy. Taking the words according to their apparent and obvious meaning (which should always be done except where there is a compelling reason to the contrary) it would seem quite clear that “the prince,” whose people were to destroy the city and the sanctuary, was the then emperor Vespasian, he being the “prince”, who commanded his son, Titus, who was in actual command of those armies at the time.

"In fact we are bold to say that the words of the Prophecy, which are the words of God sent directly from Heaven to Daniel, do not reasonably admit of any other interpretation, when read literally.

i. Nor, so far as we are aware, was any other meaning ever put upon them until within recent years, and then only by those belonging to a particular “school” of interpretation.

ii. According to the “school” referred to, the words “the prince that shall come” do not mean the prince who did come, and whose armies fulfilled this prophecy by destroying the city and the temple, but they mean some other “prince,” who in fact has not yet come, and who (of course) could have nothing whatever to do with the subject of the passage, to wit, the Destruction of the city and the Temple.

Literally, according to the view we are now considering, the passage is taken to mean that there is a “prince” who is to “come” at some unknown time yet future, which prince will be of the same nationality as the people (the Roman armies) by whom the city and the Sanctuary were to be destroyed.

iii. Yet, it is further assumed, and taught with much confidence, that this “coming prince” will be in league with Antichrist,

iv. if indeed he be not Antichrist himself.

This is a very radical idea, one which changes the entire meaning of this basic Prophecy, and affects the interpretation of all prophecy.

v. It transfers the main incidents of the prophecy of the Seventy Weeks from Christ to Antichrist,

vi. and removes them bodily from the distant past to the uncertain future,

vii. thus separating them far from all connection with the period of seventy weeks to which God assigns them.

This manner of dealing with Scripture is, so far as our experience goes, without parallel or precedent in the field of exegesis.

Is it sound and sober interpretation of Scripture, or is it playing pranks with Prophecy?

Because, with all due and proper respect for those who hold this view, we are bound to say that it does the greatest possible violence to words which are not at all obscure or of uncertain meaning.

There is no conceivable reason why any prince should be mentioned in this passage except the one whose armies were to accomplish the Destruction of the city and Temple, that being the subject of the Passage.

The words are appropriate to convey one meaning and one only.

While, these 11 items in bold brown can only be 'found', after they have been interjected into the passages, by the abandonment of reading them literally.

1. It is simply unthinkable that the destroying agency would be identified by reference to some prince who was not to come upon the scene for several thousand years,

2. or that the Romans of the first century could be called his “people.”

3. Nor would anyone who possessed the slightest understanding of the use of language employ the words of the text in order to convey the information that the people, by whom the city was to be destroyed, would be of the same nationality as some “prince” who was to “come” (without saying whence, or whither, or for what) at some remote and unspecified time.

4. And finally, even if it were supposable that such an utterly foreign subject as a prince, who was to come many centuries after the event prophesied, would be lugged into such a passage, then it would have been made to say not “the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city,” but that a prince of the people who destroyed the city shall come.

Furthermore, we know that the armies of prince Vespasian, under his son, Titus, did destroy the city and Temple, and that to this day the seven-branched candlestick, which was carried in his triumphal procession, is sculptured on the arch which was erected at Rome in his honor and his son, Titus.

5. But we know nothing of any Roman prince who is to “come” (come where?) in the future.

6. The term “Roman” pertains to nothing now except the papacy.

7. And besides all this, if any “prince” should hereafter “come” (it matters not whence or whither) it could not property be said that the people who destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70 were his people.

The plain and simple words of the prophecy are literally, “the people of the prince who shall come.” Those words can only mean the man who was the prince of the people at the time they destroyed the city and Temple. Those Roman legions and auxiliaries were the people of prince Vespasian.

8. But in no sense are they the people of some prince who may arise several thousand years later.

9. This prophecy has nothing whatever to do with any future Roman prince;

10. nor is there, so far as we are aware, any ground for saying that a Roman prince will arise to play a part in the time of The End of this Age.

11. During the centuries that have now elapsed such changes have taken place that no potentate of the approaching End Times could be described as the prince of the people by whom Jerusalem was destroyed.

The prophecy of the Seventy Weeks is manifestly an account, given beforehand, of the second period of the national existence of the Jewish people. They were to last as a nation only long enough to Fulfill the Scriptures, and to accomplish the Supreme Purpose of God, in bringing forth the Messiah, and putting Him to death. The time allotted for this was 490 years.

This being Accomplished, God had no further use for Israel.

His dealings thenceforth were to be with another people, that “Holy Nation” (1 Peter 2:9), composed of all who believe the Gospel, and who “receive” the One Who was rejected by “His Own” (John 1:11–13).

Yet, the Predicted Judgment did not immediately follow; for Christ Prayed for His murderers in His dying hour,
“Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).

In answer to that Prayer the full Probationary Period of forty years (AD 30 to AD 70) was added to their National existence, during which time Repentance and Remission of sins was Preached to them in the Name of the crucified and Risen One, and tens of thousands of Jews were Saved.

The Perfect Accuracy of Scripture is seen in this, that while it was definitely stated that the six things of Daniel 9:24 were to be Accomplished within the Determined Period of Seventy Weeks, and while the Destruction of the rebuilt city and Temple was also Predicted, that event is not among the things which were to happen within the Seventy Weeks.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon Thy people and upon Thy Holy City",
1. to Finish the Transgression,
2. and to Make an End of sins,
3.and to Make Reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to Bring in Everlasting Righteousness,
5. and to Seal up the Vision and Prophecy,
6. and to Anoint the most Holy.

In this connection it is important to observe that, while the Predicted events of verse 24 were to happen within the measured period of Seventy Weeks, and the events of verse 27 were to happen in the Midst of the Last Week of the Seventy, the time of the Predicted Judgments is not specified.

Thus the Prophecy left room for the Exercise of Mercy even to that evil generation."

"unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks"

There is a wonderful reference material linked here, in .pdf,
which gives Daniel 9 and Matthew 24 their due literal reading.

And it is a good thing that those Disciples still alive, or just John in that generation, and the Lord's people in Jerusalem, knew how to interpret what Daniel and Jesus were warning them about, so that knew to "flee", at the first signs of The Roman army making siege on them there.

https://www.baptistboard.com/thread...ulation-by-phillip-mauro.128619/#post-2863075