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Biblical vs Reformed Salvation

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
You are arguing against the Ordo Salutis. Not against actual salvation. You think things take place in different order. I disagree. Post number 134 does not say repentance is not required. It says that it does not come first.
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just the point, it has to be BEFORE a person can get saved! Listen to what the Bible says and not your theology!
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
You are reasoning from the English, the Greek is different. Look at John 3:16, " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (KJV). Why not "will not"? Does this mean that even after a sinner were to "believe" in the Lord Jesus Christ, that their salvation is still not "certain"?
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Because the phrase, "should not" is Late Middle English and past tense for "shall not".
Also, notice that the entire phrase is past tense, as in "already done" / "it is finished".

We find further support here, SBG, only in the present tense:

" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).

All of these are present tense and say that the person that "hears" His word and believes on the Son, has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life.
He that believes not shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides ( present tense ) on him.
He that believes shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death to life.

Salvation is a certain thing for those who are Christ's.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
Because the phrase, "should not" is Late Middle English and past tense for "shall not".
Also, notice that the entire phrase is past tense, as in "already done" / "it is finished".

We find further support here, SBG, only in the present tense:

" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).

All of these are present tense and say that the person that "hears" His word and believes on the Son, has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life.
He that believes not shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides ( present tense ) on him.
He that believes shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death to life.

Salvation is a certain thing for those who are Christ's.
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The implication in the Greek is, that, μὴ ἀπόληται, which is aorist middle subjunctive, that some will perish, which is linked to their lack of faith in Jesus Christ, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν, which is in the present, continuance tense. As Weymouth's Version has it, "For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages".
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
The implication in the Greek is, that, μὴ ἀπόληται, which is aorist middle subjunctive, that some will perish, which is linked to their lack of faith in Jesus Christ, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν, which is in the present, continuance tense. As Weymouth's Version has it, "For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages".
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Do you actually have a point here or are you just saying anything and everything to just make an argument?
 
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