• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Biden tells another whopper

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
OK, then we're pretty close. I don't mean to say that the right should mistreat Biden, but it is not out of order to expose their hypocrisy by giving them a taste of their own medicine.

Victor Hansen was quoted recently saying the Dem Progressive Left only understands reciprocity. They must be seriously threatened with extreme measures akin to their own.

If they won't listen to reason even then, then they will have to suffer those measures until they straighten up. Otherwise they will continue on like spoiled brats and out-of-control bullies.
I disagree to a point. While I see it as chickens coming home to roost at the same time U hesitate to say Republicans should (especially Christian Republicans) lie about Biden because Biden lied about Trump.

I understand the reasoning but just can't wrap my head around it being a moral thing to do. Christians should be (are commanded to be) better than that.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Boy Scout motto, ‘Be Prepared’. I would think that since they have been murdered, & attacked, they might just want some protective gear, aka riot gear. But that’s just a guess.
I don't know. Like Trump, I had never heard of the Proud Boys before all the hoopla and still don't care about learning about them.
 

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Guess my perception of politics in America is much different. No other president in my lifetime has ever been as poorly treated as Trump. There is just no comparison. None. Trump is not like a standard Republican, and certainly not like a standard politician. That’s why so many voters have appreciated him and why the swamp has so hated him.

The MSM have always leaned heavily Dem, but now they and those they serve are on a rampage. Trump is just an excuse—there is no doubt that their agenda is totalitarian. Biden was even defending the Chinese Communist dictator in that townhall. The Dems are hypocrites in the extreme and hate American ideals. And too many RINOs are helping them destroy America.

It's also why he got the 80 mil and not the other guy.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
I disagree to a point. While I see it as chickens coming home to roost at the same time U hesitate to say Republicans should (especially Christian Republicans) lie about Biden because Biden lied about Trump.

I understand the reasoning but just can't wrap my head around it being a moral thing to do. Christians should be (are commanded to be) better than that.
No, not quite. First, it's not about Biden lying about Trump, but about the entire Dem Consortium lying and deceiving about Trump and Biden.

And then, are you saying that they shouldn't be confronted with their own standards? The way left is to apply them equally and see how they respond.

As a further exercise in this particular situation, try to honestly imagine what Joe, other Dems and their MSM would be saying if it had been Obama rather than Trump who had prepared the way for this new admin with the vaccine and its distribution.

Clearly, Joe was intentional in his dissembling, and was aided and abetted by Cooper.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
No, not quite. First, it's not about Biden lying about Trump, but about the entire Dem Consortium lying and deceiving about Trump and Biden.

And then, are you saying that they shouldn't be confronted with their own standards? The way left is to apply them equally and see how they respond.

As a further exercise in this particular situation, try to honestly imagine what Joe, other Dems and their MSM would be saying if it had been Obama rather than Trump who had prepared the way for this new admin with the vaccine and its distribution.

Clearly, Joe was intentional in his dissembling, and was aided and abetted by Cooper.
Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Yes, I am saying that it is wrong to lie about Biden or the DNC in order to "confront them with their own standards".

What I think you are missing is that when we "sin" against the DNC to show them how it feels we are sinning against God.

There is no excuse to take the low road, to "walk in darkness". It does not teach the DNC a lesson, but it encourages them to remain in darkness.

There is no meaningful difference between those on the Right treating the Left as they were treated and the Left.

If anything, the OP has proven my point - the GOP and DNC are opposite sides of the same coin. They are both powers of this world, both principles of darkness, equally evil and corrupt.

The DNC is more dangerous to our nation (it is a party of racism and injustice) but the GOP is more dangerous to the Church as it is a wolf in sheep's clothing - justifying sin to combat its political enemies.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. Plain and simple
Trump lied about Biden, several times. Plain and simple. But that's politics and that's what we all chalked up as.

And the OP is a lie as well because it ignores Biden's explanation of his words (that by "no vaccine" he meant none in reserve...i.e., there was no vaccine). That may not be an accurate statement from Biden, but it is not a reason to resort to lying.

Too often it seems politics are the affairs that snatch the seeds from the ground.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Just to bring up the past (with politics people like to simply move on to whatever is current):

Trump misrepresented Biden when he accused Biden of wanting to end all private health insurance. Obamacare was/ is horrible, and this is the direction Biden is going. BUT it is not true that Biden's platform is to end all private health insurance.

Trump misrepresented Biden when he said that Biden would quickly impose sweeping lockdowns. This was a fear tactic.

Trump misrepresented Biden when he said that Biden "doesn't want to condemn" the rioters in Philadelphia when the day before his statement Biden condemned the rioters in Philadelphia (granted, depending on which new source one choses this fact may not be known).

Biden did the same thing to Trump. One is not better than the other when it comes to character. But that's politics. Misrepresentation is accepted as a means to a political end - you misrepresent what the other side says in order to strengthen your base because sheeple will always be sheeple but they need to be fed otherwise they may find a different master.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. Plain and simple. The end game of Obamacare is to destroy private healthcare and force America into a single payer system. Trump is right.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. Plain and simple. The end game of Obamacare is to destroy private healthcare and force America into a single payer system. Trump is right.
Sure, if we ignore all the lies told about Biden. But that would be willful ignorance.

Both sides are guilty of misrepresenting the other party. Quite frankly, I am surprised that you have not seen this. Even when I was a die-Republican I was able to discern spin, misrepresentation, and out right lies.

We can all conclude that the end game of Obamacare is to destroy private healthcare. But that is not Biden's platform, so it is a lie to say otherwise (it is looking down the line at possible motivations to make a conclusion). There are Democrats who would oppose ending private health care, but who support Obamacare. But if the DNC continues to cater to the progressives (right now a small segment of its Party) then I see that conclusion as well....and it appears this is the direction the DNC may take.

BUT it is just as much a lie as it is to make the assumption that Trump is a racist who has the goal of oppressing minority groups.

Sin is not less sin when it is ignored. And you are an intelligent person. If you truly cannot see any misrepresentation on the part of the GOP or the political Right then I suggest you reexamine your ability to objectively look at the situation. You may just be that frog in the pot unaware of the heat.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. Platforms by the DNC Re often false fronts for what they really want. Biden said he was against ending fracking. That was his platform in the campaign. Now hes ending it. Hes a known liar even recently when he said there wad no vaccine and had to back peddle. The DNC had been open about their single payer goals. So yea its his agenda whether hes open about yet or not.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. Platforms by the DNC Re often false fronts for what they really want. Biden said he was against ending fracking. That was his platform in the campaign. Now hes ending it. Hes a known liar even recently when he said there wad no vaccine and had to back peddle. The DNC had been open about their single payer goals. So yea its his agenda whether hes open about yet or not.
Except we know otherwise.

Both sides misrepresented their political opponents.

I understand that you cannot see this, and that's fine. People are people and the World is nothing if not deceptive. This is perhaps why we are cautioned about these powers and principles.

It is one thing to accept the GOP as the tool to combat the DNC. It is another to accept the GOP as truth, not recognizing the political misrepresentations and dishonesty, the compromise, the lies, inherit in it as a system. Unfortunately the first often leads to the latter.

Sometimes the seed falls among thorns. It takes root, grows, but the thorns also grow and ultimately choke the plant.
 

Wingman68

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Except we know otherwise.

Both sides misrepresented their political opponents.

I understand that you cannot see this, and that's fine. People are people and the World is nothing if not deceptive. This is perhaps why we are cautioned about these powers and principles.

It is one thing to accept the GOP as the tool to combat the DNC. It is another to accept the GOP as truth, not recognizing the political misrepresentations and dishonesty, the compromise, the lies, inherit in it as a system. Unfortunately the first often leads to the latter.

Sometimes the seed falls among thorns. It takes root, grows, but the thorns also grow and ultimately choke the plant.
How about if you enlighten us with some of the lies about Biden, instead of prancing around & calling us too blind to see. I’d like to see, if there is something to see, beside being gaslighted by narrative water carriers. Some people talk too much & say too little. Some people believe they are taking the high road when in actuality it is they who are too blind to see.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
How about if you enlighten us with some of the lies about Biden, instead of prancing around & calling us too blind to see. I’d like to see, if there is something to see, beside being gaslighted by narrative water carriers. Some people talk too much & say too little. Some people believe they are taking the high road when in actuality it is they who are too blind to see.
I already did.

Lies told by the GOP (Former President Trump)

"H1N1. You (Biden) were a disaster." The CED identified the first case of the H1N1 virus on April 14,2009. The Obama administration declared swine flu a public health emergency on April 26. At that time there had been 64 cases and zero deaths. Test kits went out May 1 (at 141 cases and 1 death). A vaccine became available early October. The comparison is misleading, at best.

"They said it would take a miracle to bring back manufacturing. I brought back 700,000 jobs. They brought back nothing." This is false. Trump did not "bring back 700,000 manufacturing jobs", even before COVID. In his first 3 years manufacturing employment rose by just under 500,000, but due to the pandemic it is down by more than 200,000 jobs from the time Trump took office.

"I'll have 25,000, 35.000, people show up at airports. We use airports." This is false. Trump did, of course, use airports but the largest crowd was approximately 10k (Airport hangers cannot accommodate crowds that Trump claimed to draw).

"Excuse me, Portland, the sheriff just came out today and he said, 'I support President Trump'." This is a false claim. The Sheriff is Mike Reese, who quickly responded that he has "never supported Donald Trump and will never support him".

Trump challenged Biden - "there aren't 100 million people with pre-existing conditions". A 2017 DHHS report estimates between 61 and 133 million Americans under the age of 65 have pre-existing conditions.

"He (Biden) called the military stupid bastards. On tape." True statement, but still dishonest as Trump presented it as a charge against Biden who was joking with the personnel in the video.

"Seattle, they heard we were coming in the following day and they put up their hands and we got back Seattle, Minneapolis. We got it back Joe, because we believe in law and order." Trump is taking credit, but Gov. Walz activated the National Guard on May 28.

"I'm OK with electric cars too. I'm all for electric cars. I have given big incentives for electric cars." This is a lie. The Trump administration tried to end tax incentives for customers who purchase electric cars.

"So as you know 202 million people, modeled out, were expected to die" (regarding the assessment of COVID in the US). This is false. The U.S. death toll was never expected to be that high.

Trump claimed that economic growth has "never" been below zero until the second quarter of 2015 (Obama's administration). The truth is that tit has been below zero 42 times since 1946.

Trump attributed the term "super-predator" to Biden (it was really Hillary Clinton).

Trump quoted Fauci as saying COVID was "not going to be a problem", but Fauci never said that.

Trump said that his bank account in China was "closed in 2015", but it is still open.

"They just happened to find 50,000 ballots last night" (the GA Senate runoff) - false statement, 50,000 ballots were not found in the runoff election.\

Trump falsely said "I don't take money from Wall Street", but he got almost $14 million from Wall Street.

"The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors". - false statement, the VP cannot reject the chosen electors.

"we weren't left ventilators by a previous administration." - false statement, the SNS had over 16K ventilators - this is more than was distributed.

The U.S. economy was the "strongest" and "greatest" in world history before the pandemic. - false statement, job growth between 2017 and 2020 was slower than job growth between 2014 and 2017. Trump's best year in GNP was a 3% increase (2018), but GDP growth had been higher 17 times over the past 40 years (including 2015). .

Trump falsely claimed that the Biden-Sanders immigration plan was to end the practice of detaining illegal immigrants (the plan was to close for-profit detention centers and end prolonged detention).

Trump claimed Biden's plan would raise "everybody's taxes". But his plan would provide a cut to 80% of the population (taxes alone, there are issues related here but it does not excuse the lie).

Trump falsely claimed that Biden's tax plan would result in "doubling and tripling your taxes." He continued by stating Biden would "raise taxes, doubling, tripling, quadrupling your taxes". - fear mongering and false. It is true that taxes would go up, but not even the highest bracket would be three times as much as it is now.

Trump claimed that the votes from the Dominion machines are counted in foreign countries, not in the United States. This is, of course, false. None of the votes are processed or counted outside of the United States.



Trump falsely accused a Republican clerk of switching 6k votes from him to Biden. But with 98% of the votes in the county had reported Biden as being ahead by about 3k votes when in fact Trump was leading by 2.5k. This was an in the process assessment, not the final numbers. While the report was not correct, it was human error during the election and not final numbers (it was not fraud).

Trump wrongly claimed that Georgia did not check signatures for mail-in ballots as was required. But the signatures were checked multiple times as is the process.

In the Michigan election Trump told his disciples "a vote dump of 149,772 votes came in unexpectedly. We were winning by a lot. That batch was received in horror. Nobody knows anything about it." This was an outright lie. The votes were in the process of being counted and an error was identified (a typo) in the working report. No votes were added to the tally. There was not a "vote dump". Trump used it to feed his sheep what they wanted.

Trump accused Biden of receiving "$3.5 million from Russia". There is no evidence of this.


The thing is, Biden is no better.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. The context of that statement is and has been the op. Anything else is a derail and unnecessary.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Biden lied about Trump. No one lied about Biden. The context of that statement is and has been the op. Anything else is a derail and unnecessary.
I never understood the point of "willful ignorance" as just believing something does not make it so.

Trump lied about Biden many times. Biden did the same to Trump. Even a child can grasp that (the words are there).

The problem comes in when people become disciples of these politicians. They are like cult members - when faced with a the fact that Trump lied about Biden (or vice-versa) they put one bad eye to the scope and declare they cannot see.

Sometimes the seed falls among thornes. But we all have to choose our path, whether in the Light or in Darkness.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I never understood the point of "willful ignorance" as just believing something does not make it so.

Trump lied about Biden many times. Biden did the same to Trump. Even a child can grasp that (the words are there).

The problem comes in when people become disciples of these politicians. They are like cult members - when faced with a the fact that Trump lied about Biden (or vice-versa) they put one bad eye to the scope and declare they cannot see.

Sometimes the seed falls among thornes. But we all have to choose our path, whether in the Light or in Darkness.

Biden lied about Trump. Trump did not lie about Biden. The context of that statement is the op. Not sure why that needs explaining over and over again.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Yes, I am saying that it is wrong to lie about Biden or the DNC in order to "confront them with their own standards".

What I think you are missing is that when we "sin" against the DNC to show them how it feels we are sinning against God.

There is no excuse to take the low road, to "walk in darkness". It does not teach the DNC a lesson, but it encourages them to remain in darkness.

There is no meaningful difference between those on the Right treating the Left as they were treated and the Left.

If anything, the OP has proven my point - the GOP and DNC are opposite sides of the same coin. They are both powers of this world, both principles of darkness, equally evil and corrupt.

The DNC is more dangerous to our nation (it is a party of racism and injustice) but the GOP is more dangerous to the Church as it is a wolf in sheep's clothing - justifying sin to combat its political enemies.
First, it is wildly amusing to imagine that the Dem Progressive Left gets encouragement from being called out for their hypocritical lying and deception. That is just nonsense, and they need no encouragement, just opportunity, which they are able to create at will.

Second, the point is not to lie about Biden, but to apply the Dems' own standards of evaluation, though I would favor prefacing it with "what if" rather than insisting on the standard. However, this particular case is not about that at all.

Third, I do agree that the OP didn't really handle the issue surrounding the vaccine all that well. It's not that that statement was an outright lie—though of course it was, especially the way Biden deceptively emphasized it—but rather that their condemnation of Biden's mendacity didn't go nearly far enough.

Biden's attempts to twist and deceive and dissemble are evident throughout his discourse on the vaccine issue. He was not at all trying to give a clear picture of the truth, which is that the Trump admin was cutting edge in bringing forth a vaccine in record time and also distributing it efficiently. Instead, Biden did his best to paint Trump as entirely incompetent and himself as a political savior.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Biden lied about Trump. Trump did not lie about Biden. The context of that statement is the op. Not sure why that needs explaining over and over again.
I agree that Biden lied about Trump. And I agree that the OP is an article about Biden's claim and not Trump's lies.

But it seems that you are trying to avoid the truth that Trump is no more honest as is Biden. They both lied. They both misrepresented one another. They both misled their disciples.

That is my point. Why do you believe it is acceptable to condemn Biden for lying when you were not stepping up to point out Trump's lies?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
First, it is wildly amusing to imagine that the Dem Progressive Left gets encouragement from being called out for their hypocritical lying and deception. That is just nonsense, and they need no encouragement, just opportunity, which they are able to create at will.

Second, the point is not to lie about Biden, but to apply the Dems' own standards of evaluation, though I would favor prefacing it with "what if" rather than insisting on the standard. However, this particular case is not about that at all.

Third, I do agree that the OP didn't really handle the issue surrounding the vaccine all that well. It's not that that statement was an outright lie—though of course it was, especially the way Biden deceptively emphasized it—but rather that their condemnation of Biden's mendacity didn't go nearly far enough.

Biden's attempts to twist and deceive and dissemble are evident throughout his discourse on the vaccine issue. He was not at all trying to give a clear picture of the truth, which is that the Trump admin was cutting edge in bringing forth a vaccine in record time and also distributing it efficiently. Instead, Biden did his best to paint Trump as entirely incompetent and himself as a political savior.
I am not saying that they get encouragement from being called out. I am saying that, just like Trump's disciples, Biden's disciples will not accept that he was lying.

@Revmitchell 's posts prove this. Trump attempted to twist and deceive and dissemble and this is plainly evident in both debates, his rallies, his statements from the White House, and even his first campaign for presidency. We all know this. The statements are there and the facts prove Trump's statements false.

My point is not that the Left is good, or that Biden is correct (I called him out as well, not for the junk of an OP but because he charged Trump with holding on to vaccines and then claimed there were none held....he can't have it both ways).

My point is the people who accepted Trump's attempts to twist and deceive and dissemble which were plainly evident simply looked the other way.

One is no better than the other. The GOP and the DNC are the same in terms of lacking character, integrity, godliness, etc. They differ on platform, but it does not matter since they are the same type of entity.
 
Top