Billy Graham on How to Become a Christian

[Deacon]

would you say that the clip is Biblical?

It's taken out of context but it's biblical...

check 1 Graham 19:97​

Rob

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Many theologians teach that infants are regenerated by God if they die before accountability.

So if God wants to regenerate certain adults after accountability who have not heard (Infants have never heard) then that is God's business.
He doesn't need our permission in a systematic theology.

I think that is what Graham is saying.,

I agree that God does not need anyone's permission to do anything, but this is not my point. If, as the Bible says that a person has to be born again in a certain way, then you can be very sure that God will do exactly what He says in His Word. It has nothing to do with systematic theology, but God Who says on things in His Word, and that He cannot break His own Word.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Perhaps there are other Scriptural considerations about the Grahams of the world who have been revered, studied and followed by the religious lost and babes in Christ since our Lord's ascension. The message Graham spouted obviously changed throughout his life to match the fleshly desires of his audiences. Wolves in sheep's clothing are easy to spot when you match their messages to those of our Lord. Graham counted the costs for his audiences constantly and merely inoculated people to the real gospel sending countless to hell on a shutter (in Christ's name of course).

In Hell | The-real-gospel Heaven

you make a very serious charge here. Can you give clear examples where Graham's messages have been so off from the Bible, that they are heretical enough to cause those who heard them, be lost forever. It is not enough to make these bold statements, you must if you are a true believer in the Lord Jesus, back up what you charge others with.

 

[HankD]

On reflecting,

The typical non-cal Baptist will place importance upon the experience of being born again, where the more reformed thinking will place the emphasis upon being born from above, and the experience is determined by God.

As a result, the non-cal Baptist will look for a specific experiential time in which they were "born again."

Those who are more into the Doctrines of Grace will also be able to testify of such, but more often in terms of it being a conversion from and embracing of, then from the idea of some grand experience.


My own view is that no matter the term, some experience aside, if one is not born from above, they are not saved.

Therefore, GHW could say of his wife that she did not have such and "experience" yet still see her as saved, for she showed evidence of being born from above.

Different from what GW had to experience as he was born from above.

Right.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

On reflecting,

The typical non-cal Baptist will place importance upon the experience of being born again, where the more reformed thinking will place the emphasis upon being born from above, and the experience is determined by God.

As a result, the non-cal Baptist will look for a specific experiential time in which they were "born again."

Those who are more into the Doctrines of Grace will also be able to testify of such, but more often in terms of it being a conversion from and embracing of, then from the idea of some grand experience.


My own view is that no matter the term, some experience aside, if one is not born from above, they are not saved.

Therefore, GHW could say of his wife that she did not have such and "experience" yet still see her as saved, for she showed evidence of being born from above.

Different from what GW had to experience as he was born from above.

If you were to read what Bush says, "some of us are born Christians. It sounds as if your mom was just born a Christian.'". There are countless people here in the UK, and doubtless around the world, who are born into homes that are "christian", who go to church a couple of times a week, and give head assent to some of what the Bible says. If asked, they would claim to be "christians", but the reality is that they are not.

Jesus Himself says that a person needs to be "born-from-above", or rightly in John 3, "born-again", as the context demands it be rendered. the Bible also places emphasis on "repentance and faith" preceding "forgiveness", and "rebirth"

 

[HankD]

I agree that God does not need anyone's permission to do anything, but this is not my point. If, as the Bible says that a person has to be born again in a certain way, then you can be very sure that God will do exactly what He says in His Word. It has nothing to do with systematic theology, but God Who says on things in His Word, and that He cannot break His own Word.

That is why I pointed to John the Baptist - He breaks "the certain way" we have designated for God..

Ergo - God does as He pleases in/out of the womb.

 

[Yeshua1]

Billy "Baalam" Graham definitely preached a false gospel and led millions astray. He didn't even believe that Jesus was the only way to heaven.

No, rather he seemed to be teaching the message as would a primitive baptist, as in God would be able to save those whom were elected to be saved regardless if/how they heard about jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

If salvation only comes by believing in the heart and confessing with the mouth (Romans 10:9), how can a person be saved without knowing it? Either Billy was an ultra-Calvinist, or he was a false prophet, or both.

I would see Him as holding that God will still be able to save those who were meant to be saved, more of a PB position!

 

[Yeshua1]

Right.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Are we saying here that Dr Graham was not saved, and so was a false preacher, or that he was really saved , but had some areas of wrong theology?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

No, rather he seemed to be teaching the message as would a primitive baptist, as in God would be able to save those whom were elected to be saved regardless if/how they heard about jesus!

so you don't need to hear about the Saviour of sinners, the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved? Is this anywhere in the Bible? Nor does the sinner need to "repent and believe" to be "forgiven and saved"?

 

[Yeshua1]

so you don't need to hear about the Saviour of sinners, the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved? Is this anywhere in the Bible? Nor does the sinner need to "repent and believe" to be "forgiven and saved"?

I am not saying that I hold to that position, but the PB indeed do!

 

[HankD]

Are we saying here that Dr Graham was not saved, and so was a false preacher, or that he was really saved , but had some areas of wrong theology?

I am not saying anything of certainty concerning the salvation of ANY MAN including Dr. Graham.

Do I believe he is/was saved - Yes!

 

[poor-in-spirit]

you make a very serious charge here. Can you give clear examples where Graham's messages have been so off from the Bible, that they are heretical enough to cause those who heard them, be lost forever. It is not enough to make these bold statements, you must if you are a true believer in the Lord Jesus, back up what you charge others with.

This will explain it to you friend, his message like all cheapened "gospel" messages in these last days doesn't match what our Lord taught thoroughly in His Gospels and reiterated repeatedly throughout the Epistles. There is no unregenerate Gospel message anywhere within Scripture....

In Hell | The-real-gospel Heaven

when done with that, then consider this and you will have a better understanding of why I say these things. They have been hidden in plain sight in the NT but you will never hear of any of it from hireling's mouths or merchandise.

In Hell | The-real-gospel Heaven

 

[Yeshua1]

This will explain it to you friend, his message like all cheapened "gospel" messages in these last days doesn't match what our Lord taught thoroughly in His Gospels and reiterated repeatedly throughout the Epistles. There is no unregenerate Gospel message anywhere within Scripture....

In Hell | The-real-gospel Heaven

when done with that, then consider this and you will have a better understanding of why I say these things. They have been hidden in plain sight in the NT but you will never hear of any of it from hireling's mouths or merchandise.

In Hell | The-real-gospel Heaven

Dr graham message was the Gospel one, at least when preaching as the Evangelist in the Crusade, and while I myself saw him teaching from an Arminian and not a Calvinistic position, would say that he would state that a sinner must come to Christ to be born again. His own testimony would be to that effect!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Dr graham message was the Gospel one, at least when preaching as the Evangelist in the Crusade, and while I myself saw him teaching from an Arminian and not a Calvinistic position, would say that he would state that a sinner must come to Christ to be born again. His own testimony would be to that effect!

so you say that a sinner need not come to Christ to be born-again? then how does it work? Christ Himself says, "come unto Me..." (Matthew 11:28-29); The the OT Yahweh says, "Come, let us reason together..." (Isaiah 1:18); We read in Revelation 22, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (22:17), etc, etc...

 

[HankD]

IMO "calling" (or being drawn to Christ) is apart from regeneration and precedes it.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

IMO "calling" (or being drawn to Christ) is apart from regeneration and precedes it.

John 16:8 says that the Holy Spirit is "convicting" the world of sin...because the lost sinners do not believe in Jesus as their personal Saviour. This is the first "step" in the sinners road to their salvation. Acts 7:51 tells us that this "convicting" can be "resisted", which is an act of "free will" in the sinner.

 

[HankD]

John 16:8 says that the Holy Spirit is "convicting" the world of sin...because the lost sinners do not believe in Jesus as their personal Saviour. This is the first "step" in the sinners road to their salvation. Acts 7:51 tells us that this "convicting" can be "resisted", which is an act of "free will" in the sinner.

I agree with much of that.

At this point I would rather say "apparent free will in the sinner".

 

[Yeshua1]

so you say that a sinner need not come to Christ to be born-again? then how does it work? Christ Himself says, "come unto Me..." (Matthew 11:28-29); The the OT Yahweh says, "Come, let us reason together..." (Isaiah 1:18); We read in Revelation 22, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (22:17), etc, etc...

No, I am saying that certain Baptists and others hold that those elected to salvation by God will always receive their eternal life, if they hear of Jesus and receive Him, here on earth, if never heard of Him, than in heaven!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

No, I am saying that certain Baptists and others hold that those elected to salvation by God will always receive their eternal life, if they hear of Jesus and receive Him, here on earth, if never heard of Him, than in heaven!

so, if a sinner does not hear about Jesus and the need for forgiveness and salvation in this life, they will somehow still be saved? So, you believe in post-death salvation? any Scriptures?