Getting around in alot of IFB circles I have heard more than one pastor or layperson say "Yea they're goin liberal down there. They started that praise and worship stuff." I'm a fundamental Baptist in the "classic sense" but I've seen many well meaning people misuse the word liberal just because somebody or some church's style is different from theirs.
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Blind guide to Moderate and Liberal
- Thread starter Ed Edwards
- Start date
Some people never get out of the crowd they hang out with.
As a missionary on deputation I've been in churches where they use the NIV, have drums and guitars, do skits, have power point etc...
I've been in churches that are KJVO sing nothing hymns, have only a piano and organ and all the women have to wear dresses.
Now let me tell you something, I've seen the Spirit of God moving in both.
Let me tell you something else. I've seen both kinds more DEAD than a doorknob too.
I lean to a more traditional style of worship myself. Yet, you cannot deny the power of God when you've been in His presence.
To me there is nothing more silly and goofy than being in a church that is trying to copy PDL format or Willowcreek. Some churches I've been in are doing that and you can tell in a flash that God isn't in it a bit more than a man in the moon.
Now I'm not saying He is not in it because of the style. I'm saying God is not in it because the church hasn't really sought after God to see if that is what He wants or not. If God is leading to use some of the tools from those places that is different.Trying to impose it on your church for results is fruitless if it is not Spirit led.
OTOH, I've been in some IFB churches that are located in a strategical area of their respected community and they are about to fold up. You sit there and your going man, Joe or Jill down the street are not gonna come within a mile of this place because they are more concerned about dress length and B.version problems.I'm not talking about compromising the Word or even your style of worship I'm just saying be aware of what is going on around you.
All I'm saying is it boils down to this. It really comes down to the hearts of the people.
Now I'm talking about the contemporary folk and the traditional folk not the liberals and the conservatives.
Contemporary folk call fundamentalists- Pharisees.
Fundamentalists call Contempoary folk Liberals.
Happens alot on this board really. I've probably been guilty of it myself.
For the record I'm a IFB in the classic sense of the word fundamental. I enjoy more or less the traditional style of Worship and good, hard expository preaching.
But I've been around enough and seen enough to realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat. For those who don't get that saying "God doesnt' move in the hearts of folk in just one style.
As a missionary on deputation I've been in churches where they use the NIV, have drums and guitars, do skits, have power point etc...
I've been in churches that are KJVO sing nothing hymns, have only a piano and organ and all the women have to wear dresses.
Now let me tell you something, I've seen the Spirit of God moving in both.
Let me tell you something else. I've seen both kinds more DEAD than a doorknob too.
I lean to a more traditional style of worship myself. Yet, you cannot deny the power of God when you've been in His presence.
To me there is nothing more silly and goofy than being in a church that is trying to copy PDL format or Willowcreek. Some churches I've been in are doing that and you can tell in a flash that God isn't in it a bit more than a man in the moon.
Now I'm not saying He is not in it because of the style. I'm saying God is not in it because the church hasn't really sought after God to see if that is what He wants or not. If God is leading to use some of the tools from those places that is different.Trying to impose it on your church for results is fruitless if it is not Spirit led.
OTOH, I've been in some IFB churches that are located in a strategical area of their respected community and they are about to fold up. You sit there and your going man, Joe or Jill down the street are not gonna come within a mile of this place because they are more concerned about dress length and B.version problems.I'm not talking about compromising the Word or even your style of worship I'm just saying be aware of what is going on around you.
All I'm saying is it boils down to this. It really comes down to the hearts of the people.
Now I'm talking about the contemporary folk and the traditional folk not the liberals and the conservatives.
Contemporary folk call fundamentalists- Pharisees.
Fundamentalists call Contempoary folk Liberals.
Happens alot on this board really. I've probably been guilty of it myself.
For the record I'm a IFB in the classic sense of the word fundamental. I enjoy more or less the traditional style of Worship and good, hard expository preaching.
But I've been around enough and seen enough to realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat. For those who don't get that saying "God doesnt' move in the hearts of folk in just one style.
O
OCC
Guest
Very true brother!
And I would join you in this: "For the record I'm a IFB in the classic sense of the word fundamental. I enjoy more or less the traditional style of Worship and good, hard expository preaching." That's what my church is like.
And I would join you in this: "For the record I'm a IFB in the classic sense of the word fundamental. I enjoy more or less the traditional style of Worship and good, hard expository preaching." That's what my church is like.
I don't believe that all spiritual gifts have ceased... just the miraculous sign gifts.
A friend of mine put it well when he said, "I will believe in faith healers when they walk through the children's burn ward healing people without cameras instead of on a stage in the middle of a stadium."
I have heard a few "hearsay" stories about Baptist missionaries that natives heard in their own language. None that I can personally confirm and definitely not widespread occurrence.
I also heard a missionary recount his ability to walk across hot coals to turn a village away from a pagan shaman. Again, not the rule.
A friend of mine put it well when he said, "I will believe in faith healers when they walk through the children's burn ward healing people without cameras instead of on a stage in the middle of a stadium."
I have heard a few "hearsay" stories about Baptist missionaries that natives heard in their own language. None that I can personally confirm and definitely not widespread occurrence.
I also heard a missionary recount his ability to walk across hot coals to turn a village away from a pagan shaman. Again, not the rule.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
Walking across hot coals isn't a miracle. It just seems like one to the uninitiated.
HUH?????
Marcia
Active Member
Oh, brother. This walking across hot coals was once a big thing in the U.S., started by New Ager Anthony Robbins (or Tony). He would psych his followers up beforehand telling them how they could do if they believed, yada, yada, yada.
Turns out anyone can do it. Coals are very porous and if one walks across somewhat quickly their feet will not get damaged or burned (unless one has super delicate skin like a baby or young child).
This "miraculous" walking across coals has been debunked for ages.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Thanks, Ed, will that information be coming on page three or page four?Originally posted by Artimaeus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
In this topic I'll be telling you blind folk the
difference, perhaps you can figure it out, given
enough information
</font>[/QUOTE]You are welcome.No, it won't be page three or four.
Maybe page 12 and page 17 of this first topic;
page 5 and page 14 of the #2 topic; page 2
and page 12 and page 18 of the #3 topic, etc.
We who have been around for three years already
know that in the debate forums, there
is a high noise/signal ration, like 20 to 1
(i.e. 95% static and 5% information).
Right now we are fighting with folks who
define 'liberal' as:
1. anyone who disagrees with me
2. anyone who agrees with me but uses
different words than i use
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Massdak: " ... even simple and uneducated people are given wisdom
from God. but many liberals do want to blend their error with
good doctrines for their own reasons."
A. Thank you for being a good 'bad example'.
Your obvious spirt of open rebellion against the
basic rules of inter-personal communication shows
you have no respect for God's work nor any sense of
being able to accomplish God's desire for your life.
B. I notice you display in one post two of the five
pseudo-fundamentals of an hyper-fundie (#2 and #3)
The pseudo-fundamentals:
1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
2. Anti-education
3. Anti-success
4. Anti-female
5. Anti-alien (Hate of gay-boys, racism, etc.)
C. "but many liberals do want to blend their error with good doctrine for their own reasons."
Thank you for pointing out a difference between
a liberal and a moderate. A liberal is as you say.
A moderate adds variance of opinion to correct bad
doctrine. Please learn the difference between
the moderate allies of the conservative and the liberal
enemies.
from God. but many liberals do want to blend their error with
good doctrines for their own reasons."
A. Thank you for being a good 'bad example'.
Your obvious spirt of open rebellion against the
basic rules of inter-personal communication shows
you have no respect for God's work nor any sense of
being able to accomplish God's desire for your life.
B. I notice you display in one post two of the five
pseudo-fundamentals of an hyper-fundie (#2 and #3)
The pseudo-fundamentals:
1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
2. Anti-education
3. Anti-success
4. Anti-female
5. Anti-alien (Hate of gay-boys, racism, etc.)
C. "but many liberals do want to blend their error with good doctrine for their own reasons."
Thank you for pointing out a difference between
a liberal and a moderate. A liberal is as you say.
A moderate adds variance of opinion to correct bad
doctrine. Please learn the difference between
the moderate allies of the conservative and the liberal
enemies.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
I see no corelation between
the religious spectrum:
-Hyper-fun-die
-Fundamentalist
-Moderate
-Liberal
-Hyper-liberal
and the gifts of the spirit spectrum:
-all gifts are given and must be used
-all gifts are given and can be used
-only the miracle sign gifts have ceased
-the spiritual gifts have ceased
-what gifts of the spirit?
Obviously there are two two different dimensions
in which we humans sort and catagorize
the religious spectrum:
-Hyper-fun-die
-Fundamentalist
-Moderate
-Liberal
-Hyper-liberal
and the gifts of the spirit spectrum:
-all gifts are given and must be used
-all gifts are given and can be used
-only the miracle sign gifts have ceased
-the spiritual gifts have ceased
-what gifts of the spirit?
Obviously there are two two different dimensions
in which we humans sort and catagorize
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
American political spectrum:
-left wing nut
-liberal
-moderate Democrat
-moderate Republican
-conservative
-right wing nut
Note that the moderate groups are so big
that both the Democrats and Rupublicans
must appeal to the moderates of the
other party to win elections.
Massdak: "it (sic) is always biblical (sic) for Christians
to point out error and warn other weaker Christians
of bad liberal doctrine.
IT is a sin to put a stumbling block in the path of
a blind person or weaker Chrisitan.
Labeling moderates and their doctrines as 'liberal'
is such a stumbling block.
-left wing nut
-liberal
-moderate Democrat
-moderate Republican
-conservative
-right wing nut
Note that the moderate groups are so big
that both the Democrats and Rupublicans
must appeal to the moderates of the
other party to win elections.
Massdak: "it (sic) is always biblical (sic) for Christians
to point out error and warn other weaker Christians
of bad liberal doctrine.
IT is a sin to put a stumbling block in the path of
a blind person or weaker Chrisitan.
Labeling
moderates and their doctrines as 'liberal'is such a stumbling block.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
American religious spectrum:
-hyper-liberal
-liberal
-moderate
-evangelical
-fundamentalist
-hyper-fundie
-hyper-liberal
-liberal
-moderate
-evangelical
-fundamentalist
-hyper-fundie