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BORN DEAD

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brother James, Mar 17, 2006.

  1. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Better get some righteousness of your own, too.
     
  2. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Quit being snotty. All my righteousness is Christ and Him alone.
     
  3. Brother James

    Brother James New Member

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    Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
    Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
    Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
    Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
    Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
    Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    2Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
    2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
    2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
    Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
    Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
    Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
    Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
    1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
     
  4. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Helen,

    Paul said that it was those who died in Adam who would be made alive in Christ. In light of Romans 5 I just cannot understand why anyone would object to having Adam's sin charged to her account but would have no problem having Christ's righteousness credited to her account.
     
  5. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Because of Adam I was born with a sin nature. Because of that sin nature, I chose to rebel and then was separated from God and became spiritually dead.

    Because of Christ that sin nature was replaced, and I was given His righteousness as a covering and adopted into the family of God.
     
  6. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    But that's not the parallel that Romans 5 draws. "For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous." You and I were made sinners by one man's disobedience. That man was not me and it was not you.

    You would break the parallel - You would say that Adam gave you a sin nature and you added sin, so you died. Then you would say that Christ took your sin nature and ?????? added righteousness, so you live. For your parallel to hold, you would have to be the one adding righteousness, which is why I made the "snotty" comment (which I still don't think was "snotty").
     
  7. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I died because of the sin nature I inherited from Adam. His disobedience was bequeathed to me as sin nature.

    I live because of the new nature I was given by Christ. His sacrifice and obedience was bequeathed to me as righteousness.
     
  8. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    But that's not the parallel that Romans 5 draws.

    Wait - I've heard this somewhere before.

    (Now that was snotty.)

    "by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners" - can't get away from that.
     
  9. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I am a sinner because I was born with a sin nature, courtesy of Adam.

    I am saved because I was born again with a new nature, courtesy of Christ.
     
  10. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    By whose sin did you become a sinner?
     
  11. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Keep that thought, Helen. You're on to something there. This is a "did you hear what you said" in a good way. Re-read, carefully what you said. It's great! I think you've got it!

    Yes, you are saved BECAUSE you were born again, courtesy of (or by) Christ. Regeneration MUST ALWAYS precede repentance and faith. You were enabled by the Holy Spirit to repent and believe. Do you see that?
     
  12. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    If regeneration precedes belief in Christ then the entire Gospel message is a fake.

    "What must I do to be saved?"
    "Repent and believe..."

    Sound familiar?
     
  13. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Too late, you said it. It's settled. [​IMG]
     
  14. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    You know what I say and what I believe, JD. Please don't twist my meaning...
     
  15. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    So what you say and what you believe are two different things? Now I'm really confused.
     
  16. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman New Member

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    Mat 9:12 MK 2:17 Actually I think sometimes it is the teachings of calvin on death or total inability that trash the bible.
     
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