Born of God

[mark1]

Ok, maybe it is just me. Can anyone here on the list explain to me how Deu 1:39 answers my questions? I just ain't gettin what Mark is trying to say with this verse.

Israel disobeyed God and God punished them by having them wonder in the wilderness until that generation passed away.

God said that their children would be the ones to possess the land which in that day when Israel disobeyed the children had no knowledge between good and evil, or in other words they were not given the choice to obey or disobey because they were not born yet, but would enter into the promissed land.

So please! Someone explain to me how this answers these questions....

Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

According to you all embryos are filled with sin and are of the devil instead of of the Lord. I always thought of a new child as a "gift" from God. That would mean that all abortions don't only suffer, an ice pick through the brain, but go to hell also, because of their sins.

Let me be more specific since this is what I asked of you. Yes, I was lost at conception in need of the blood of Jesus Christ to save me. Yes, I was dead in sin and in need of Jesus' sacrifice to save me.

At "conception" no less.

Suffer little children to come unto me for "such" is the kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 19:14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

Yes, he had faith, but had not received the blood of Christ as of yet, so was without his "white" robe, which comes from the blood of the Lamb.

Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

For the most part, he was righteous, but lived in a time when God said, "Oh you backsliding Israel" return unto me for I am your God.

Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

He was for the most part righteous because of faith, and was "born after the Spirit", whether that is regenerated or not, I do not know. All I know is he was "born after the Spirit of God".

They were living when they shed the blood of animals to "stay" their sins and looking forward to the promise of one who would put their sins away forever and never to be remember against them. If what they had was good enough to put their sins away forever, there would of been no need for the "coming of Christ".
You tell me.

Also, how do you live with yourself, believing that embyros, are filled with sin and are of the devil, and are hell bound. Many having an ice pick shoved through their brain from the back of their head, cast into a garbage can, and go to Hell. Man oh man!!!!

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[steaver]

Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

Yes, he had faith, but had not received the blood of Christ as of yet, so was without his "white" robe, which comes from the blood of the Lamb.

Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

For the most part, he was righteous, but lived in a time when God said, "Oh you backsliding Israel" return unto me for I am your God.

Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

He was for the most part righteous because of faith, and was "born after the Spirit", whether that is regenerated or not, I do not know. All I know is he was "born after the Spirit of God".

So David, had faith in God, was righteous "for the most part" whatever that means to you, I guess it means he sinned only a little bit, and you don't know what regeneration means.

But earlier you said if a man (I used David as an example) is righteous then he is "made alive", I would assume this is "born again" to you, because of faith and then this man cannot commit adultery because he is kept by God from such acts of sin.

Mark;

If the soul sinneth, it is dead to God and so is the flesh, making the whole man dead in sin.
If a man is righteous, then his soul (inward part) has been made alive because of "faith". The outward man has not yet been delivered but is kept by the power of God.

Yet David, whom you agree had faith in God and therefore according to you was "made alive", whom you agree was righteous, at least "for the most part", did indeed then go on to sin the "grevious sin" of adultery.

Now you added this twist of not yet receiving a "white robe". Have you received your white robe? Or do you take this as just a figure of speech, that we will really not be actually wearing a white robe?

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Interesting reference to our discussion. David committed sin, Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, are all of these men of the devil?

I believe the proper context of the verse is "he that continues on in sin" is of the devil. John, teaching us how the false teachers are to be detected. But, that's just me, always trying to stay in context.

 

[steaver]

Also, how do you live with yourself, believing that embyros, are filled with sin and are of the devil, and are hell bound. Many having an ice pick shoved through their brain from the back of their head, cast into a garbage can, and go to Hell. Man oh man!!!!

I don't believe I ever said any such thing. Let me check, here it is...

post#109; There is an election according to grace. I do not know how God decides the fate of infants. He does not reveal much in this area. I do know for sure that anyone who hears the gospel and rejects it will be lost in hell.

post#111; No one enters into heaven without the blood of Christ. Not infants, not anybody. It matters not if they actually performed an act of sin or not.

If what you say is true, that all infants get to enter heaven, then abortion is a good thing for them. Otherwise, we know that about 99% of them that live will grow up, commit an act of sin, never receive Jesus and spend eternity in hell. It would be far better to be killed in your mothers womb. I find that hard to live with. I will continue the fight against abortions. If i just thought they all get heaven, then why fight for them? So they can grow up and get hell?

Like I said, God's word does not reveal much about babies going to heaven, but I trust God has this all worked out and I will fight for all babies to have the chance to grow up and have a chance to live for Jesus.

 

[mark1]

I don't believe I ever said any such thing. Let me check, here it is...



If what you say is true, that all infants get to enter heaven, then abortion is a good thing for them. Otherwise, we know that about 99% of them that live will grow up, commit an act of sin, never receive Jesus and spend eternity in hell. It would be far better to be killed in your mothers womb. I find that hard to live with. I will continue the fight against abortions. If i just thought they all get heaven, then why fight for them? So they can grow up and get hell?


Like I said, God's word does not reveal much about babies going to heaven, but I trust God has this all worked out and I will fight for all babies to have the chance to grow up and have a chance to live for Jesus.

So you believe to let them be partial born, enough for the head to be out, take an ice pick and run through the back of their head to their little brain, is a (quote) "good thing".

 

[mark1]

So David, had faith in God, was righteous "for the most part" whatever that means to you, I guess it means he sinned only a little bit, and you don't know what regeneration means.

But earlier you said if a man (I used David as an example) is righteous then he is "made alive", I would assume this is "born again" to you, because of faith and then this man cannot commit adultery because he is kept by God from such acts of sin.



Yet David, whom you agree had faith in God and therefore according to you was "made alive", whom you agree was righteous, at least "for the most part", did indeed then go on to sin the "grevious sin" of adultery.

Now you added this twist of not yet receiving a "white robe". Have you received your white robe? Or do you take this as just a figure of speech, that we will really not be actually wearing a white robe?



Interesting reference to our discussion. David committed sin, Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, are all of these men of the devil?

I believe the proper context of the verse is "he that continues on in sin" is of the devil. John, teaching us how the false teachers are to be detected. But, that's just me, always trying to stay in context.

Mark;

If the soul sinneth, it is dead to God and so is the flesh, making the whole man dead in sin.
If a man is righteous, then his soul (inward part) has been made alive because of "faith". The outward man has not yet been delivered but is kept by the power of God.

After the shedding of Christ's blood which put away sin forever, therefore they could not "backslide".

David only had the blood of animals, that stayed their sin from year to year.

Over and over you use David to defend your adultery, then you turn against him, when it does not fit your theology.....

Hbr 9:13
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Hbr 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hbr 9:19
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Hbr 9:20
Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Hbr 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

[steaver]

So you believe to let them be partial born, enough for the head to be out, take an ice pick and run through the back of their head to their little brain, is a (quote) "good thing".

No, i do not believe this because i believe you are wrong. I said IF what YOU say is true, but of course it is not true.

If it were you Mark, finding yourself in hell for eternity, and you found out in hindsight that if someone would have killed you through an abortion you would not be found in a torturous hell, but found in a wonderful heaven, would you then wish you had been killed before birth?

You see, when one considers the outcome for all of eternity, all infants killed going to heaven makes the horrific pain of abortion pale in comparision to an eternity in hell for those surviving infancy. This is why I reject your view even apart from the lack of scriptural support for it.

I say again, I do not know how God deals with infants who die without ever having a chance to hear about Jesus. Just the same for those adults who never hear about Jesus.

A visting pastor gave a testimony in our church this past Sunday about a Muslem man who came into his bible study and gave his testimony of how he came to Christ. He said he was born and grew up in the Middle East (I can't remember the name of the village, it started with an "O") and at age eighteen he had never heard the name Jesus Christ. He had a dream and the man in the dream said "I am Jesus Christ and you need to trust in me". Later he came to the USA and while on a college campus a man handed him a track about Jesus. He was saved as He read the track. So MUST God save people ONLY through the witness of another believer? Can God not reveal Himself to some in different ways?

Like I said, I don't know how God deals with these situations and NIETHER do you! Leave the unknown to God and preach what we do know.

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

After the shedding of Christ's blood which put away sin forever, therefore they could not "backslide".

David only had the blood of animals, that stayed their sin from year to year.

Over and over you use David to defend your adultery, then you turn against him, when it does not fit your theology.....

Now you added this twist of not yet receiving a "white robe". Have you received your white robe? Or do you take this as just a figure of speech, that we will really not be actually wearing a white robe?

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Interesting reference to our discussion. David committed sin, Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, are all of these men of the devil?

 

[mark1]

Now you added this twist of not yet receiving a "white robe". Have you received your white robe? Or do you take this as just a figure of speech, that we will really not be actually wearing a white robe?



Interesting reference to our discussion. David committed sin, Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, are all of these men of the devil?

Yes, I have my white robe, which comes from the blood of the Lamb, that is the difference between the Law and the Grace. I have the blood, and they also have it now, but when Jesus died and fulfilled His promise to them.

Don't you have yours on the inside? Your soul?

 

[mark1]

No, i do not believe this because i believe you are wrong. I said IF what YOU say is true, but of course it is not true.

If it were you Mark, finding yourself in hell for eternity, and you found out in hindsight that if someone would have killed you through an abortion you would not be found in a torturous hell, but found in a wonderful heaven, would you then wish you had been killed before birth?

You see, when one considers the outcome for all of eternity, all infants killed going to heaven makes the horrific pain of abortion pale in comparision to an eternity in hell for those surviving infancy. This is why I reject your view even apart from the lack of scriptural support for it.

I say again, I do not know how God deals with infants who die without ever having a chance to hear about Jesus. Just the same for those adults who never hear about Jesus.

A visting pastor gave a testimony in our church this past Sunday about a Muslem man who came into his bible study and gave his testimony of how he came to Christ. He said he was born and grew up in the Middle East (I can't remember the name of the village, it started with an "O") and at age eighteen he had never heard the name Jesus Christ. He had a dream and the man in the dream said "I am Jesus Christ and you need to trust in me". Later he came to the USA and while on a college campus a man handed him a track about Jesus. He was saved as He read the track. So MUST God save people ONLY through the witness of another believer? Can God not reveal Himself to some in different ways?

Like I said, I don't know how God deals with these situations and NIETHER do you! Leave the unknown to God and preach what we do know.

:jesus:

I do not think it is the unknown and have given plenty of scripture to prove it. According to my theology, they go to heaven, if they die as an infant, or aborted.

Rom 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Had to be alive for it to die!
Mat 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Not going to be, but already is!!


Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
Rom 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10
And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].

Steaver: Let me be more specific since this is what I asked of you. Yes, I was lost at conception in need of the blood of Jesus Christ to save me. Yes, I was dead in sin and in need of Jesus' sacrifice to save me.

Now, according to your theology, they have to go to hell, the aborted, the partial aborted, the infants who die, all from conception have to go to hell, according to your theology.
But, you throw in, "we don't know what God does, to cover your corrupt theology.

 

[steaver]

I do not think it is the unknown and have given plenty of scripture to prove it. According to my theology, they go to heaven, if they die as an infant, or aborted.

Rom 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Had to be alive for it to die!
Mat 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Not going to be, but already is!!


Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
Rom 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10
And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].

Not one of these scriptures speaks of infants. You have nothing here. Zero, nadda, a bid goose egg O.

Now, according to your theology, they have to go to hell, the aborted, the partial aborted, the infants who die, all from conception have to go to hell, according to your theology.
But, you throw in, "we don't know what God does, to cover your corrupt theology.

My view requires no such thing. My view allows God to be God and He may do as He knows best for those who have not heard of Him through no fault of their own. I don't have a theology on the issue. I admit it is unknown and do not try to misconstrue scriptures into creating a theology on it.

Again, you can provide a couple of scriptures (none of the above however) where an infant was believed to have gone to heaven. David's child to Bathsheba is one. But you haven't much more than this.

Yes, I have my white robe, which comes from the blood of the Lamb, that is the difference between the Law and the Grace. I have the blood, and they also have it now, but when Jesus died and fulfilled His promise to them.

Don't you have yours on the inside? Your soul?

I don't know Mark. I know I have one coming as far as scripture reveals as well as a new body coming, a new name and a crown of life, but can you give me scripture which tells me my soul has a white robe on it right now as I live here in this body of death? Teach me something!

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Interesting reference to our discussion. David committed sin, Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, are all of these men of the devil?

Still wondering what you think.......:wavey:

 

[mark1]

Interesting reference to our discussion. David committed sin, Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, are all of these men of the devil?

Still wondering what you think.......:wavey:

I think I answered it, but I will try again.

Rom 6:13Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.

According to scripture, while you are lending your members to commit sin, you are not yielding yourself to God, but unrighteousness, which is of the devil.

Whosoever, including Abraham, David while they were sinning, they were not serving God.

Of course, if you believe embyros sin, then you are close to God being the Author of Sin, so who knows what you believe about sinning.

 

[mark1]

Not one of these scriptures speaks of infants. You have nothing here. Zero, nadda, a bid goose egg O.

You don't seem to have much understanding at all.


My view requires no such thing. My view allows God to be God and He may do as He knows best for those who have not heard of Him through no fault of their own. I don't have a theology on the issue. I admit it is unknown and do not try to misconstrue scriptures into creating a theology on it.



Yes, your theology does condemn babies to hell.

Again, you can provide a couple of scriptures (none of the above however) where an infant was believed to have gone to heaven. David's child to Bathsheba is one. But you haven't much more than this.

More than you have.


I don't know Mark. I know I have one coming as far as scripture reveals as well as a new body coming, a new name and a crown of life, but can you give me scripture which tells me my soul has a white robe on it right now as I live here in this body of death? Teach me something!

:jesus:

Isa 61:10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh [himself] with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth [herself] with her jewels.

Never seen a bride wear "black" have you.


Isa 1:18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Rev 3:18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


There are other scripture, but then we get into the eschatology, and I just don't feel like going there with you.

 

[steaver]

Whosoever, including Abraham, David while they were sinning, they were not serving God.

You mean they were of the devil, right?

I believe David had several wives and several whores on the side as well throughout his life. How is it you believe he was righteous for the most part? David lived his entire life in adultery. Maybe he was declared righteous through faith in God apart from his own sins. Just maybe! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

Of course, if you believe embyros sin, then you are close to God being the Author of Sin, so who knows what you believe about sinning.

Mark, the more you post here on the BB, the more I fear Brother Bob coming out in you. I am not sure exactly why he got banned, but I know he was persistent at twisting other Christians statements. So be careful about misrepresenting another's views.

I never said embyros sin and be careful of accusing me of declaring God the Author of sin.

Every person is conceived with a sin problem, a curse passed through the blood. Every person needs the sacrifice of Jesus Christ whether they ever had a chance to actually commit an act of sin or not.

 

[steaver]

Yes, your theology does condemn babies to hell.

See this is what BBob kept doing. Even though the poster fully explained their view over and over, he would post a false claim without proof and say "IMO". It didn't fly and if you want to stick around I would think a bit more carefully before posting such things. Just a fair warning :wavey:

 

[mark1]

See this is what BBob kept doing. Even though the poster fully explained their view over and over, he would post a false claim without proof and say "IMO". It didn't fly and if you want to stick around I would think a bit more carefully before posting such things. Just a fair warning :wavey:

Are you the owner of this board, a moderator, administrator, or are you just a school boy?

You make a post: You accuse people as you did Bro. Bob of questioning your salvation, when he posted over and over and over, that he was not questioning your salvation, that was not good enough for you. Maybe you just can't understand when some people are stating exactly what you have posted.

Did Jacob and Esau need the blood of Jesus? I assume yor answer is yes. Then this scripture has nothing to do with the topic. No one enters into heaven without the blood of Christ. Not infants, not anybody. It matters not if they actually performed an act of sin or not. Sin entered ALL through Adam's sin which is passed on through the blood. Infants have blood, even from conception.

Then you are not man enough to acknowledge it.

Your warnings remind me of the ones you made against Bro. Bob, that he had questioned your salvation. Over and over Bro. Bob posted that he did not question your salvation, but that was not enough for you, you wanted blood. Unfortuantly, a moderator believed you and sided with you, and Bro. Bob was banned for life. A man of God, who has served God most of his life. According to his profile, he was a Pastor for over 27 years, an ordained minister for 36 years, yet you felt he was "self-righteous", of which you called him "self-righteous" after he was banned. A man who is going on 70 years old. Probably baptized more people than you will ever, visited more sick, most likely traveled more miles away from his family serving God, than you will ever travel. I can't even imagine what this man has been through to serve God, and you call him "self-righteous", and not one word was said to you about it.

Now you are "warning" me, for stating something you actually said. For your information, the blood at conception is an embryo, of which you said it had sin through the blood. If it died in sin, without faith, then hell would be its home, according to what you have posted.

I hope you have repented of what you did to Bro Bob. If not, then I will pray for you, that God will enlighten you, about offending one of His children.

Mar 9:42And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Now, I can support everything I have said by your posts. If you want to run to the moderators with more false accusations, be my guest. If they ban me, that will be another notch you can put in your theology, against one of God's children.

 

[steaver]

Now, I can support everything I have said by your posts. If you want to run to the moderators with more false accusations, be my guest. If they ban me, that will be another notch you can put in your theology, against one of God's children.

I have never reported anyone to anybody ever. Moderators do just that, they moderate these discussions. If BBob got himself banned it was not because of anything i said, but what he said.

My conscience is clear. I gave you a warning as a brother in Christ nothing more, I am not in any authoritive position. Now your last post continues to make false accusations, i pray you reconsider the way you tweek what others say. You see with BBob it turned into a personal vendetta on his part because he could not defend his views with scripture. It happens alot on these boards to some degree, but BBob took it to another level for some reason. BBob's banning was entirely of his own making. Most people heed the warnings and let it go, BBob would not let it go.

Personally, i have never been warned by a moderator. I have had other brothers question my post and when i said something personal or wrong I would appologize, nobody is perfect. I welcome your criticism if I get personal or misrepresent what you say, as well as the criticism of the moderators.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ag, Mark1, it is fruitless -- spirtually unprofitable -- to argue with you.

Steaver, keep courage, brother!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Where were we, actually, last?