Born of God

[mark1]

Mark 10:14; But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

for of such is the kingdom of God.

Already is a part of the kingdom, without your baptism.


Rom 2:15; Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

To the Gentile nation, show me where babies do the things contained in the Law?

14: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Rom 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 6:23For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Again, how can a child die when they sin, if they are born sinners?


Baptized over again in your eyes. In God's eye's it only needs to be done once.

You missed this question; How does one enter heaven without Jesus' sacrifice?

They went to the same place that Lazurus did, the bosom of Abraham, waiting for the promise to be fulfilled of the perfect sacrifice, so they could receive their robes from the blood of the Lamb.

You just failed to read it. Lazarus was in the time of Moses.

 

[steaver]

Do you happen to know of a scripture where I have to baptize children, for them to become part of the Kingdom, when Jesus said they already are a part??

Baptism is not the door to the Kingdom of God. Born again through faith in Jesus Christ is what places one in the Kingdom.

Jesus never said they were already in. You are misconstruing the passage. Jesus explained; Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

 

[steaver]

You just failed to read it. Lazarus was in the time of Moses.

I read it, three times now.

How does one enter heaven without the sacrifice of Jesus?

 

[mark1]

Baptism is not the door to the Kingdom of God. Born again through faith in Jesus Christ is what places one in the Kingdom.

Jesus never said they were already in. You are misconstruing the passage. Jesus explained; Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Mark 10:14; But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Turn a blind eye if you want, my Bible says they are already in the Kingdom of God.

 

[steaver]

Turn a blind eye if you want, my Bible says they are already in the Kingdom of God.

You are way out of context if you take this statement as all children are in the Kingdom of God. One cannot enter the Kingdom of God unless they have been born again. You say children are in the Kingdom, then they understand sin and get kicked out of the Kingdom and have to be regenerated once again to get back in. That is riddiculus my friend!

 

[steaver]

How does one enter heaven without the sacrifice of Jesus?

Still waiting.......

 

[mark1]

You are way out of context if you take this statement as all children are in the Kingdom of God. One cannot enter the Kingdom of God unless they have been born again. You say children are in the Kingdom, then they understand sin and get kicked out of the Kingdom and have to be regenerated once again to get back in. That is riddiculus my friend!

So, my friend, according to what you have just laid out, hell will be filled with children, for a lot of them die.

That word "out of context" is a good crutch for you isn't it?

Jesus said "such IS the kingdom." You saying the Lord is telling false?
This is the Lord's words, I am just repeating them. If you don't want to believe the Lord, that is you, not me.

Deu 1:39Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

 

[mark1]

How does one enter heaven without the sacrifice of Jesus?

Still waiting.......

That is for sinners. Little children are without sin. Where there is no Law, sin is not imputed. Even if they know what sin is, which I don't think so. All I hear them say is "goo goo" and "da da". Doubt if that is sin.

You apparently believe if they die, they go to hell?

Be kinda hard if a baby was looking up at you and saying "da da" and toss it into hell, don't you think?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There is enough place and space for all children who ever died in infancy. That's not the problem. The Reformed opinion is if the parents are believers, the children are saved.

However, no child will 'go to heaven' (as you people express their salvation) because they were sinless. If they are saved, it MUST be because of the merit of Jesus Christ - by the fact He died and rose from the dead, FOR THEM. How it is explained in terms of the 'rebirth', I cannot say. It also doesn't worry me; God is both Judge and Saviour.

The Gospel message concerns responsible, thinking human beings. Therefore it is quite clear, no one is saved but he that is born again.

 

[mark1]

There is enough place and space for all children who ever died in infancy. That's not the problem. The Reformed opinion is if the parents are believers, the children are saved.

However, no child will 'go to heaven' (as you people express their salvation) because they were sinless. If they are saved, it MUST be because of the merit of Jesus Christ - by the fact He died and rose from the dead, FOR THEM. How it is explained in terms of the 'rebirth', I cannot say. It also doesn't worry me; God is both Judge and Saviour.

The Gospel message concerns responsible, thinking human beings. Therefore it is quite clear, no one is saved but he that is born again.

I agree, but you must be lost first. I know scripture says "all" have sinned, but I believe its talking about those who know what sin is.
It is through the blood of Christ that they will be resurrected, but by His Grace.

1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 1:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I agree, but you must be lost first. I know scripture says "all" have sinned, but I believe its talking about those who know what sin is.
It is through the blood of Christ that they will be resurrected, but by His Grace.

1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 1:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

GE:
So, do you imply after the resurrection children will grow up and then become sinners in order to be saved then? I think some SDAs are thinking that way (I do not say for fact here.) through misinterpretation of some text in Isaiah that says a child will get to the age of 100 years or something. To me it's a most ridiculous thought.

 

[steaver]

That word "out of context" is a good crutch for you isn't it?

You don't believe in context?

Jesus said "such IS the kingdom." You saying the Lord is telling false?
This is the Lord's words, I am just repeating them. If you don't want to believe the Lord, that is you, not me.

"just repeating God's words", is this your "good crutch"?

Let me try your crutch....

I know scripture says "all" have sinned, but I believe its talking about those who know what sin is.

"All have sinned", this is the Lord's words, I am just repeating them. If you don't want to believe the Lord, that is you, not me.

I always found this line you use very telling, others use it as well, "I am just repeating the Lord's words". This is code for saying 'I don't care about context or exegisis or hermeneutics' Or 'don't confuse me with the facts'

:jesus:

 

[mark1]

GE:
So, do you imply after the resurrection children will grow up and then become sinners in order to be saved then? I think some SDAs are thinking that way (I do not say for fact here.) through misinterpretation of some text in Isaiah that says a child will get to the age of 100 years or something. To me it's a most ridiculous thought.

No, I believe as Jesus said:
Jhn 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.




Rom 9:11(For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

There was no "condemnation" yet, of the children.

I believe in a quick work the Lord will do. I do not believe in all the mumbo jumbo I hear on BB, of at least 3 more resurrections. I believe in One yet to come.

 

[mark1]

You don't believe in context?



"just repeating God's words", is this your "good crutch"?

Let me try your crutch....



"All have sinned", this is the Lord's words, I am just repeating them. If you don't want to believe the Lord, that is you, not me.

I always found this line you use very telling, others use it as well, "I am just repeating the Lord's words". This is code for saying 'I don't care about context or exegisis or hermeneutics' Or 'don't confuse me with the facts'

:jesus:

"Such IS the kingdom of God" is not my words, but the words of Jesus. Take it or leave it. :thumbs:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

No, I believe as Jesus said:
Jhn 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.




Rom 9:11(For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

There was no "condemnation" yet, of the children.

I believe in a quick work the Lord will do. I do not believe in all the mumbo jumbo I hear on BB, of at least 3 more resurrections. I believe in One yet to come.

GE:
Let's be fair, mark1, it's not "BB". We are on the forum for 'other denominations', remember! So you can put your money on it you'll find all the weirdo's on it. It makes it very difficult in fact for any 'normal' Christian to post here. But make of it a positive challenge, and make your own contribution as positive as possible.

So also please try and be simple and straight-forward, because I find a lot (if not about every thing) you post here, impossible to grasp and out of line with PLAIN Scripture. Perhaps you should look at yourself and not at those weirdo's like myself.

 

[mark1]

GE:
Let's be fair, mark1, it's not "BB". We are on the forum for 'other denominations', remember! So you can put your money on it you'll find all the weirdo's on it. It makes it very difficult in fact for any 'normal' Christian to post here. But make of it a positive challenge, and make your own contribution as positive as possible.

So also please try and be simple and straight-forward, because I find a lot (if not about every thing) you post here, impossible to grasp and out of line with PLAIN Scripture. Perhaps you should look at yourself and not at those weirdo's like myself.

So also please try and be simple and straight-forward, because I find a lot (if not about every thing) you post here, impossible to grasp and out of line with PLAIN Scripture. Perhaps you should look at yourself and not at those weirdo's like myself.

That is a wild statement GE, when very few on here agree with you. I try to look at myself, but maybe I could do a better job of it. I suggest you quit taking the avenue that you are the one who is "correct" and that maybe you need to look in the mirrow yourself. I guess I will have to agree on the weirdo part, at least we agree on something. So, from here on out, you can always refer back to us agreeing on the weirdo part..........

You need to be more specific about what you disagree with. It seems you don't agree with anyone, but if you be more specific, I will provide scripture for my beliefs.

Also, if I remember correctly, you only believe in "one" resurrection to come. You can correct me if I am wrong.

I also, do not find "rapture" in the bible, it came from John Darby. I think we agree on that. I do believe the hour is coming when "all" in the grave shall come forth.

I also believe what tribulations the children of God will see is before the second coming of Christ, I think we agree on that.

Maybe I misread you though.

 

[steaver]

"Such IS the kingdom of God" is not my words, but the words of Jesus. Take it or leave it. :thumbs:

"Such" what?

"Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."

So let's use your approach to exegesis. This verse indicates that if one does not enter into the kingdom of God "as a little child", "he shall not enter in".

Adults cannot be saved. One must be a little child. Now what Mark? This is the Lord's words, I am just repeating them. If you don't want to believe the Lord, that is you, not me.

 

[mark1]

"Such" what?

"Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."

So let's use your approach to exegesis. This verse indicates that if one does not enter into the kingdom of God "as a little child", "he shall not enter in".

Adults cannot be saved. One must be a little child. Now what Mark? This is the Lord's words, I am just repeating them. If you don't want to believe the Lord, that is you, not me.

Well, humble and innocent as a little child. How about that Steaver, If you don't want to believe the Lord that is up to you.

Such? had your evil covered over, so you become as a little child.

You are just sticking your head in the sand. IMO :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

Mark;

If the soul sinneth, it is dead to God and so is the flesh, making the whole man dead in sin.
If a man is righteous, then his soul (inward part) has been made alive because of "faith". The outward man has not yet been delivered but is kept by the power of God.

Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery?

Was David righteous prior to his adultery?

Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery?

 

[steaver]

Well, humble and innocent as a little child. How about that Steaver,

It does not say "humble and innocent". It says "as a little child". If you don't want to believe the Lord that is up to you.