Featured Bought then Redeemed

I don't know how to respond to this considering your cockamamie redefining of Biblical terms, I'm not sure what the question is. To me 'ransom' and 'redeemed' are synonymous as far as the atonement goes.

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The Bible On Ransom Vs. Redemption (preachersinstitute.com)

 

@Van

Enough of this boondoggle. You've indicated God may or may not, He might, maybe, credit our faith as righteousness on this thread and others, you'll do it again. You lack the integrity to man up and explain it.

 

Old Testament references to God’s redeeming His people, we are instructed that God views His people as His intimate family. He never makes redemption possible. He never offers redemption. He redeems His enslaved people from their just debts. This principle carries over to the New Testament doctrine of redemption in which the Lord Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, entered His world and suffered to redeem His people from their indebtedness to divine justice (Matthew 1:21).

Matthew 1: 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Brother Glen

 

No, it's not "potential redemption." It's you promoting universal payment of all sins and then saying that it is really only some who are paid for. The determiner of who is paid for and who isn't becomes the humans display of personal faith which God judges and determines to either be righteous or unrighteous faith.

So, in your "potential redemption" is a graceless salvation. But, you cannot see it and you will not accept that this is your teaching at the core.

 

You are openly stating: "all are ransomed"
That is very clearly "universal payment."
For you to deny this is silly. Own what you are saying.
Then you turn around and deny the first statement by saying: "but only some redeemed"
So, you are clearly saying universal payment, but only for some, which therefore makes the payment only potential.

How then can one make sure the payment is actually made? You state that God must judge if a person's faith is righteous or not. If God looks at the person's faith and says "yes", then they are chosen. If God looks at a person's faith and says "no," then they are not chosen.

In your teaching salvation is not by grace. Instead it's by the humans own faith, which God evaluates and either says yes or no.

This is what you claim, yet when called out, you deny your own teaching. It's incredibly frustrating to dialogue with you when you make a claim and deny it at the same time.

 

Here's what you now say: "He paid the price to become the means of reconciliation for all of humanity."

This means he didn't ransom anyone. He only became the means by which a person could be ransomed and have the price paid.

How is the price paid, Van?

If you say that it is by means of God declaring a person's faith to be righteous, then you declare man's personal faith to be the savior and means that moves God to save. That is works of man that cause God to be obligated. Van, that is removing grace from salvation.

It is very, very clear that your statement "He paid the price to become the means of reconciliation for all of humanity"
is incorrect and graceless.

I will watch as you try to run from your statement and blame me instead of accept your error.

 

Your statement addresses the fact that you teach Jesus didn't ransom all. At best, Jesus only potentially ransomed all. Read your own quote.

"He paid the price to become the means of reconciliation for all of humanity"

Note that Jesus cannot have actually ransomed all in your comments.

 

Yes, the thief was absolutely ransomed. It was more than potential and it was not because of what the thief did. It was purely because God the Son declared to the thief that he would be with Him in paradise.

Yes, by being ransomed, the person is actually forgiven. Christ's ransom is the means by which God paid for sin, redeems sinners, and forgives their sin.

Van, it's more than just "potential." It is actual, 100% assured, with no doubt, done. At the cross the payment was made for all whom God gave to Jesus so that not one would perish.

 

Van, if your claim is correct, then all persons who are saved are saved by their own merited faith and thus Paul's statement that "You have been saved by grace" is utterly negated by your teaching.

I know you cannot see it, but all who actually read what you say will have to come to that conclusion. I am sorry you cannot see your error.

 

No redefinition. They are synonymous. When you have had all your sins purchased and ransomed, you stand before God, made holy and perfect by the blood of Jesus. Christ has redeemed you from your sin.
To deny this is to deny the effectual work of Christ, by grace, on your behalf. The only thing that can replace it is a salvation by works.

The absurdity in this discussion is your statements that Jesus work on the cross is only a potential means to salvation. The absurdity is your statement that one is not chosen until God reviews the person's faith and checks off that person's personal faith as being worthy of being declared righteous.
Your claims are graceless and they miss the message of Paul regarding Justification.

Finally, you speak as a lone, rogue, voice and then condemn the community of Christ because they don't hold your views. That should be a red flag to you and your theology.

I don't believe there is anything more for us to discuss. We will disagree.

 

Then show some integrity and explain the 'if':

Is this the gospel of Vanology?:

'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and God might save you.'