British take on American Christianity

[JonShaff]

Our pastor when we lived in northern Maine (early 1980s) called this "pastor-papacy", where the pastor not only took on all the duties described in #7 but refused to let others participate in them, running the church like a petty dictator. Our pastor opined that this practice was the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, mentioned in 2 of the 7 letters to the churches in Rev. 2,3. (Other commentaries I've seen hold that mixing truth with error was the Nicolaitans' failing.)

Suffice to say, Many churches, including many Baptist Churches, look like "pastor-papacy."

 

[Revmitchell]

The Pastor is to EQUIP the people for the work of the ministry.

Edit--Actually it says, "Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors/Teachers"--they Equip the people for the work of the ministry.

Nothing there I disagree with.

 

[HankD]

Our pastor when we lived in northern Maine (early 1980s) called this "pastor-papacy", where the pastor not only took on all the duties described in #7 but refused to let others participate in them, running the church like a petty dictator. Our pastor opined that this practice was the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, mentioned in 2 of the 7 letters to the churches in Rev. 2,3. (Other commentaries I've seen hold that mixing truth with error was the Nicolaitans' failing.)

Jesus said he hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

The word "Nicolaitan" is (or can be) a word with a semantic bent in the direction of "captivating the people".

Personally I agree with this view but IMO it is a rebuke to the earliest forms of the emergence of an heretical "sacerdotal" priesthood which grants the pastor ( "priest") special powers to forgive sin and/or perform sacramental ritual.

Now, may I put them together? What the word Nicolaitans itself means, and when it came to flower in the Pergamean period of the church; the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is therefore the exaltation of a group above their fellow men who arrogate to themselves the powers of life and of death. They alone can forgive sins; they alone can open the doors to heaven; and they also have the obverse power of excommunication and damnation into hell. And they are exalted in the world. They are princes of the church. And they curry political concordance and favor. And as God said in James 4:4: “The friendship of the world is the enmity of God.” “. . . Which thing I hate.” Twice does the Lord say it, the doctrine of the Nicolaitans [Revelation 2:6, 15].

It began early, early. It began at the beginning of the Christian story and the Christian faith. In the Ephesien period of the church, the Lord said to the church at Ephesus, “Thou hast them [there] the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I hate” [Revelation 2:6]. But in the Pergamean period of the church: “Thou hast them [there] that hold the doctrine” [Revelation 2:15]. It has grown from deeds into a great system—the doctrine, the teaching, the way of the Nicolaitans. Isn’t that an unusual thing? One of the characterizations of all life and all matter and all creation is this: apart from God, the law of degeneration, corrosion, and corruption, and rust, and decay are everything in all of God’s created universe. The sun and the rain and even the air itself are relentless arms of destruction. Even the stars grow old and die. And so it is with spiritual life; it has a tendency to corrode; it has a tendency to decay; it has a tendency to quiesce and to die like a flame into an ashen ember; that’s what happened to the Christian church.

There in the beginning, in the Ephesian period, there were the deeds of the Nicolaitans [Revelation 2:6]. Like the third [epistle] of John refers to Diotrephes, he lifted himself above his fellows and would not receive the apostolic emissaries from John [3 John 1:9]. And he controlled the church and used it for himself [3 John 1:10]. But by the time you come to the Pergamean period of the church, that thing that was isolated as a deed—which thing God hated back there in the beginning [Revelation 2:6]—has become a great system, and priestcraft has supplanted the preacher of the Word [Revelation 2:12-15]. And ritual and ceremony has supplanted the power of the regenerating Spirit of God. And the church has opened its bosom and its heart to receive the world. That great change came in the Pergamean period, and the church is no longer a company of baptized believers—a regenerated household of faith—but the church has become a channel of sacerdotal, sacramental, hypothetical salvation! What an astonishing thing that could have developed in the churches of Jesus Christ!

And following - it is a long read - heavily dispensational.

The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans

Now this does not mean that every "bossy" pastor is a Nicolaitan. No and perhaps some local churches may well need a bossy pastor .

I suppose there is a "line in the sand" which a pastor could take that would propel him into the Nico-laity domain but it would be very difficult indeed in a Baptist local church - but not impossible of course.

 

[Jerome]

British take on American Christianity
This is quite a thoughtful article, which I would encourage my American brothers here to read. I'm in no position to say how accurate it is; no doubt someone will tell me.
Are we seeing the end of institutional Christianity in America? | VirtueOnline – The Voice for Global Orthodox Anglicanism

Huh? How is it is a "British take".

 

[Yeshua1]

Suffice to say, Many churches, including many Baptist Churches, look like "pastor-papacy."

Yes, as those types seem to stack up all family members as Elders and decision makers!

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Just as a point of interest: the word "church", or a derivative, appears eighteen times in the article. It is only capitalized (five times) in the paragraph related to the RCC.

 

[Revmitchell]

From the op:

Thirdly, there is the alliance of leading evangelicals with president Donald Trump in a manner that the country has not seen since George W. Bush's entry into Iraq. Evangelical protestants and frequent churchgoers were the most supportive of the Iraq War. Trump has fired up evangelicals so much so that they see him as a king Cyrus figure saving America from liberals, progressives and socialists aimed at undermining the constitution, that would have created a Supreme Court subverting religious freedom. It should be noted that the present movement is led by Jerry Falwell, Jr. President of Liberty University. It was his father who led the Moral Majority movement in the 70s that empowered evangelicals to become politically involved, something that evangelicals had mostly eschewed up till that time. It was formed as a political action group to further a conservative agenda, including the allowance of prayer in schools and strict laws against abortion. The movement died in the 80s.

What a bunch of inflammatory characterizations.

 

[HankD]

This is quite a thoughtful article, which I would encourage my American brothers here to read. I'm in no position to say how accurate it is; no doubt someone will tell me.
Are we seeing the end of institutional Christianity in America? | VirtueOnline – The Voice for Global Orthodox Anglicanism

We know the "true Church" cannot be defeated "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

In the Sinai desert communities needed high walls built to protect the population.

High walls need gates which can be secured at night or when under attack.
Gates to a city became synonymous with the authority of that city.
Within these gates were designated places where sat the princes, generals and priests who allowed or disallowed entry of sojourners.

Through these gates the armies of the city-state passed through to make war upon its enemies.

The gates of hell - Jesus said they would not prevail showing us that they would certainly try.
The most deadly strategy - the infiltration of the tares (Matthew 13).

The biggest church split in the history of the world is coming, probably soon.

Matthew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[church mouse guy]

From the op:



What a bunch of inflammatory characterizations.

Apparently, McCarrick, accused of 45 years of abuse, was a link to the Clinton campaign for Pope Francis. Needless to say, Pope Francis was not happy to see President Trump at the Vatican and could hardly welcome Trump. Whenever the left mentions what they think are the ills of the church, they attack Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism for politics, but there is no attack of Episcopal posturing in theological terms for open borders or Presbyterian USA open endless complaints about the joos and other political activities of the leftist churches.

Today the states of New Jersey, New Mexico, and New York began legal investigations in the Roman Catholic Church. Also, the US DOJ is looking at a memo calling for RICO investigation coordinating all of the state investigations. The RCC may have violated federal law when they aided male prostitutes from Mexico, Colombia, and the Philippines to enter the US to attend their seminaries and essentially lied to the federal government.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

The biggest church split in the history of the world is coming, probably soon.

Please elaborate. Is the use of the small "c" in church of any significance? Are you referring to the called-out assembly?

 

[HankD]

Please elaborate. Is the use of the small "c" in church of any significance? Are you referring to the called-out assembly?

Wesley please go back and read the scripture I provided, that explains it all.

church Church, what is the difference, read the scripture I provided. Thanks