Bush and Cheney remind us how we got into this mess

[Salty]

1. Because we were running a surplus before GB and DC took over. That was quickly down away with by the tax cuts...

No - Surplus was used up by continuing and adding to unnecessary social programs

2. The two wars created huge deficits. This is where they began but, unfortunately, did not end and they will not end for a long time.

Two points - 1) We found extensive resistance after Saddam was toppled. 2) Why wasn't the war ended by the end of 2009? Two additional years of military spending. Wasn't that a promise

5. The starting of preemptive wars was a very dangerous precedent. We really do not know where this will lead in the future.

agreed - so why did we go into Libya?

6. ... In 100 years the historians who will be well known and respected then have not been born yet. Thus, they will be able to take a more balanced view of "our times".

As we look back was it a mistake to go into WW I; what about the Spanish American War?

7. The historians will, if they are honest ones, not play partisan politics, but explain what happened and why. I believe this will lead to harsh criticism of GB and DC.

Do you think that comportment historians have been honest with history from 1830-1930?

1. Read, read, read.
5. Do not be tied to hero worship or to a political philosophy to the extend that you are blinded to alternatives that may be better.

I think these are the best two of your list

 

[Deacon]

I believe they know in their hearts that history will judge them very harshly.

More likely that history will see the individual presidencies in a general state of decline and condemn the inability of the political system to deal with the exploding national debt.

Rob

 

[mandym]

Your citations are off topic. If you did not notice we are not discussing how history will judge Clinton. That might make for an interesting thread.

Uh, that was quite on topic for reasonable people who are not wanting facts exposed. They are relevant because they speak to the credibility of the claims.

 

[Crabtownboy]

More likely that history will see the individual presidencies in a general state of decline and condemn the inability of the political system to deal with the exploding national debt.

Rob

That is a real possibility also. There will be a number of factors that will influence their conclusions. Congress will have its share of blame also.

 

[Crabtownboy]

[/SIZE]
You joined here in early 2008 - I assume we can see predictions from you that the collapse was imminent.

I do not remember if I made any predictions at that time. I did get out of the stock market shortly after joining.

Really? More of this? How did you know this?

1. Housing prices had gone up so fast that is seemed to me that there had to be a housing bubble that had to pop. I saw a house on my street that was sold for about $75,000, in two years it sold for $200,000 and two years later half a million. This was a ridiculous price and there was no way such increases could be sustained.

2. Derivatives were receiving some bad press and it seemed likely these were going to lead to trouble. My stock broker also voiced concern about them. I did not realize how big the trouble was going to be when it did hit. I did not foresee the demise of major brokerage houses or the extent of the banking problem.

3. The debt was and had been growing. This meant there had to be trouble and a day of reckoning coming.

4. It seemed from actions or lack of them that B and C were hoping to be out of office when the crisis hit. They must have had advisers who were telling them of upcoming problems. I realize the B did not like hearing what he did not want to hear. But surely some were telling them of foreseeable problems. I read an editorial, can't remember where, back about 2004 or 2005 where the writer said he/she believed B was not concerned about the deficit as it would be a problem for the next president. I do not know if this is true or not, but it did give me pause to think about this possibility.

5. I knew and still know that top officials have privy to information that I and the general public do not. But I had a very bad feeling about what little I did know.

I hope this helps in understanding where I was coming from.

 

[HankD]

Yes, they remind us of how we got in this mess and "C" IMHO comes off as a little man still wanting to settle real and imagined scores. I believe they know in their hearts that history will judge them very harshly. Remember a definitive history is generally acknowledged to be impossible to write until at least 100 years after an event or series of events. By the the real results and effects will be known. We are far too close to know how all this, which they began, will play out.

100 years? Then why bother with a presidential election every 4 years?

And shouldn't we wait one hundred years before we call "C" a "little man" wanting to settle real and imagined scores?

Aren't we "far too close to know how all this, which they began, will play out" to be so critical?


HankD

 

[Andy T.]

I hope this helps in understanding where I was coming from.

No, it didn't. You provided no evidence of how you know what Bush and Cheney knew or what they were thinking.

 

[freeatlast]

No, it didn't. You provided no evidence of how you know what Bush and Cheney knew or what they were thinking.

It is there responsibility to know before they take us into war.

 

[carpro]

Yes, they remind us of how we got in this mess and "C" IMHO comes off as a little man still wanting to settle real and imagined scores. I believe they know in their hearts that history will judge them very harshly. Remember a definitive history is generally acknowledged to be impossible to write until at least 100 years after an event or series of events. By the the real results and effects will be known. We are far too close to know how all this, which they began, will play out. I predict it will not be pretty as it is already ugly.

Yes, it is an opinion piece. But isn't that what we do here on most of the time on this BB, give our opinions?

Just another hatchett job by another partisan hack reporter.

A waste of paper.

Eat it up , crabby. It'll feed you hate til the next time.

 

[Robert Snow]

Just another hatchett job by another partisan hack reporter.

A waste of paper.

Eat it up , crabby. It'll feed you hate til the next time.

For you to accuse anyone else here of hate is unbelievably hypocritical! No one here shows more hate for the current administration than you!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Have I ever said that everything is Bush's fault? I have said that much of the mess we are faced with began during their time in office.

Why are you trying to misdirect the thread away from how history will treat Bush and Chaney?

Because it is based on a lie.

Did Clinton or Bush invade Iraq?

The Clinton administration bombed Iraq. They sanctioned Iraq. They killed a half million women & children in Iraq.

Did Clinton or Bush cut taxes and run up huge deficits?

Did the housing market and economy collapse during Clinton's term in office or during Bush/Chaney's time in office?

Seemed to collapse after the dems took control of congress, in 2006.

 

[Crabtownboy]

[/SIZE]

Because it is based on a lie.[/size]

Proof please. Proof please.

The Clinton administration bombed Iraq. They sanctioned Iraq. They killed a half million women & children in Iraq.

Give me a link to this information. Half a million? Really? Give me a link please.

Who sent troops in? Who spent trillions?

Seemed to collapse after the dems took control of congress, in 2006.

Ah, but who set it up? Who was in control of the Congress for 12 years? Who was in the presidential office?

At least Truman was honest with his sign that said, "The Buck Stops Here."

Hyper Bush apologists cannot change the fact of who was in office and wo really got us into this mess.

Cheers.[/size]

 

[Robert Snow]

Proof please. Proof please.






Give me a link to this information. Half a million? Really? Give me a link please.

Who sent troops in? Who spent trillions?



Ah, but who set it up? Who was in control of the Congress for 12 years? Who was in the presidential office?

At least Truman was honest with his sign that said, "The Buck Stops Here."

Hyper Bush apologists cannot change the fact of who was in office and wo really got us into this mess.

Cheers.[/size]

I doubt he responds except his normal routine of saying he's through with you. It's the way he responds when he is challenged.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I doubt he responds except his normal routine of saying he's through with you. It's the way he responds when he is challenged.

Yes, he accuses others of disappearing but avoids responding to questions or requests for backup information. It is always either the president before GB or the one following him who is at fault.

I find it amusing to see how far the hyper Bush apologists will go to protect their hero from any critical, but truthful, remark or fact. It is rather like GB refusal to ever admit a mistake. I am sure there is a name for this psychological syndrome but I do not know what it called.

 

[NiteShift]

I find it amusing to see how far the hyper Bush apologists will go to protect their hero from any critical, but truthful, remark or fact. It is rather like GB refusal to ever admit a mistake. I am sure there is a name for this psychological syndrome but I do not know what it called.

CTB, Obama has been blaming Bush for three years now for every problem the country faces. If you don't want anyone defending Bush then why continually put up Dem talking points that try to blame him for Obama's (and Pelosi's) lack of competence? They had their chance trying to stimulate our way out of a recession/depression and it has failed.

 

[Crabtownboy]

CTB, Obama has been blaming Bush for three years now for every problem the country faces. If you don't want anyone defending Bush then why continually put up Dem talking points that try to blame him for Obama's (and Pelosi's) lack of competence? They had their chance trying to stimulate our way out of a recession/depression and it has failed.[/IMG]

No one is arguing that the deficit has become much worse in the last years. The thread is about when it started. We were running a surplus when he took office. In his [Bush's] political philosophy this is, so it seems from his track record, a bad thing. He immediately set about tax cuts and then began two wars that have been, economically at least, disastrous for the US.

The Bush apologists refuse to admit that the Bush administration started us on this downward spiral. Remember the first bank bailout was in the last days of the Bush administration.

GB could never bring himself to admit he made any mistakes. From the last interview I read he still cannot. His apologists seem to have the same psychological near-sightedness.

 

[mandym]

No one is arguing that the deficit has become much worse in the last years. The thread is about when it started. The Bush apologists refuse to admit that the Bush administration started us on this downward spiral. Remember the first bank bailout was in the last days of the Bush administration

First, it gets said all the time. Second at this point it has little relevance as Obama seems to feel a need to distract from his incompetency by blaming Bush for what He cannot get accomplished through his socialistic policies which are a prove failure.

 

[NiteShift]

The Bush apologists refuse to admit that the Bush administration started us on this downward spiral. Remember the first bank bailout was in the last days of the Bush administration.

I also remember we had a AAA credit rating when Obama took office.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Proof please. Proof please.






Give me a link to this information. Half a million? Really? Give me a link please.

I've given you the links. You ignore them. You are dishonest. I have shown you, several times where Madeline Albright is ok with the dead women & children. You are deliberately dishonest.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo

This and the links I provided give enough proof for the honest people to know we didn't get here by Bush alone. The folks who hate Bush so much they have to lie about him, rather than discuss actual issues, will just have to ignore this, as well.

Bush didn't start this. And Obama ain't going to end it.