BUSH Wins - Christians everywhere rejoice

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
IS HOMOSEXUALITY REALLY DESTROY MORE MARRIAGES THAN HETEROSEXUAL AFFAIRS, OR ABUSE, OR ALCOHOLISM, OR DRUG ADDICTION, OR GOSSIP????

Ouch, my eyes are burning!!!

Statistically, most marriages are destroyed by adultery and financial irresponsibility. After that comes physical abuse, drug and alcohol addictions. Homosexuality is further down. As for gossip, it's probably a contributing factor in all marital, not to mention all other, issues. </font>[/QUOTE]Which addresses my point, an action C4K and Pa. Jim wouldn't deign to do. Thank you.

 

[here now]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C4K:
And if we want to get back to the original topic - President Bush is not in favour of a total ban on the slaughter of the unborn. If the mother's life is in danger it is okay to murder the child.

Is that a bad enough sin to justify criticism?

Is your purpose in this area just to find something to be critical about?

</font>[/QUOTE]That was never the issue - the point is that there are reasons for Christian to be less that joyful about another Bush administation. It has been that simple from the very start. </font>[/QUOTE]I think that most Christians understand that no one is absolutely perfect.

So it is my beleif that most TRUE Christians are rejoicing.

Keyword: TRUE

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Well folks - claim a debate victory if you desire here. I am stepping out of here, especailly now that the truth of my faith has been questioned.

My point remains - if we could keep it on topic - which we clearly can't.

There are reasons for Christians to be less than joyful about another Bush term, just as their would be under President Kerry or and other president.

I would rejoice equally in the fact that God's will has been done.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by here now:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:
C4K and PA Jim-

So let me see if I understand you.

Being a homosexual is worse than a father molesting his on 4 month old baby and giving it Gonerea, which lead to the infant's death.

Or what about the mother who has the abortion in which she is injected with a solution that literally BURNS her unborn baby to death. And then she gives birth and discards her burnt baby like TRASH.

This is just a few you know that the horror stories go on and on.

PA Jim-

So when weighing being homosexual against these to situaions:

Is being homosexual the worst sin? </font>[/QUOTE]Who cares? Why would I wish to sit around ranking sins? The question was whether homosexuality was worse than "any other sin", and I have logically and biblically shown that it is worse than many sins.

All three in question here are grevious sins. And, our President is in favor of appointing practicioners of at least two of them to high level positions.

 

[here now]

Originally posted by C4K:
How can you call on me to choose my wife over my child - or my daugher over my grandaughter?

That unborn child would be MY CHILD, how can anyone excuse its murder for any cause?

Honestly I've never been faced with that so I don't know what I would do.

I know that there are situations where doctors say that something is certain to happen. And sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

But how does someone get past the fact that they could have saved one life and they let two die?

&lt;edited only to correct quoted material&gt;

[ November 09, 2004, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by here now:

So it is my beleif that most TRUE Christians are rejoicing.

Keyword: TRUE

I have been saying for some time that Evangelical Christians have made a false idol of GW Bush. Now we have evidence.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

BTW...just for the record, Bush also states that he is in favor of legalized abortion for rape and incest.

 

[here now]

Originally posted by C4K:
Well folks - claim a debate victory if you desire here. I am stepping out of here, especailly now that the truth of my faith has been questioned.

My point remains - if we could keep it on topic - which we clearly can't.

There are reasons for Christians to be less than joyful about another Bush term, just as their would be under President Kerry or and other president.

I would rejoice equally in the fact that God's will has been done.

C4K-
I promise you, that remark about true Christianity was not pointed at you.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:
C4K and PA Jim-

So let me see if I understand you.

Being a homosexual is worse than a father molesting his on 4 month old baby and giving it Gonerea, which lead to the infant's death.

Or what about the mother who has the abortion in which she is injected with a solution that literally BURNS her unborn baby to death. And then she gives birth and discards her burnt baby like TRASH.

This is just a few you know that the horror stories go on and on.

PA Jim-

So when weighing being homosexual against these to situaions:

Is being homosexual the worst sin? </font>[/QUOTE]Who cares? Why would I wish to sit around ranking sins? The question was whether homosexuality was worse than "any other sin", and I have logically and biblically shown that it is worse than many sins.

All three in question here are grevious sins. And, our President is in favor of appointing practicioners of at least two of them to high level positions. </font>[/QUOTE]Nice try, but here's what you said:

quote:Originally posted by Gup20:
Let me ask you, C4K .... is homosexuality worse than any other sin??

C4K is very capable of answering, but I'd like to take a try at it myself, too.

The answer is "yes".

So in fact you have gone from saying "Yes, it's the worst sin," to saying, "What I meant to say..."

Thanks for sharing, Senator Kerry.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
BTW...just for the record, Bush also states that he is in favor of legalized abortion for rape and incest.

and... ?

 

[here now]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:

So it is my beleif that most TRUE Christians are rejoicing.

Keyword: TRUE

I have been saying for some time that Evangelical Christians have made a false idol of GW Bush. Now we have evidence. </font>[/QUOTE]You have no such evidence.

 

[here now]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:
I think that most Christians understand that no one is absolutely perfect.

So it is my beleif that most TRUE Christians are rejoicing.

Keyword: TRUE

I have been saying for some time that Evangelical Christians have made a false idol of GW Bush. Now we have evidence. </font>[/QUOTE]PA Jim-I don't appreciate you deliberately sabatogging my quote.

NOTICE, that I said that: I think that most Christains understsand that no one is absolutely perfect. Which for SOME reason you choose to leave out.

 

[Gup20]

The answer is "yes".

So homosexuality is worse than murder... worse than blaspheming the holy spirit... worse than not accepting Jesus as your savior?

The WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH! It doesn' say homosexuality is worse than other sins.... all sin is paid by death. Now the earthly punishment for different sin may be in different degrees, but can we all agree that any sin can be forgiven by God except for not believing in Jesus?

Sin is Sin. The wage of ANY sin is the same wage of any other sin - death. Period.

If you believe the Bible, then you know that death entered this world because Eve ate a piece of fruit she was told not to.... so, Jim, is homosexuality really worse than eating too many cheeseburgers? Our eternal life on earth with no pain or suffering was lost when Eve ate an apple (fruit). What is worse than death and eternity in hell? Is homosexuality going to give a person death and hell more so than any other sin? I think not.

So then... why is homosexuality worse than lying or adultry? Because of our culture and society and the expectations and ramifications of them. So spiritually it's no worse than any other sin... the same remedy is available as is available to any other sinner (salvation). But physically in our society it is worse. Therefore, our society has rules that govern the severity of the punishment as it corrresponds to the severity of the crime (God does not).

Would I be upset if a speeder wer made ambassador - probably not.

Yet more people are killed every year in America by car accidents involving speeding drivers than are killed by AIDS, or are killed by abducters, or are killed by drugs or alchohol.

Now we are indeed to resist evil in the earth. But appointing a homosexual to be an ambassador isn't exactly an endorsement to homosexual marriage. It's appointing a sinner to public office. Guess what... that happens every day. It doesn't mean that Bush supports homosexuality... it means that Bush thinks this person is a good embassador.

And if we want to get back to the original topic - President Bush is not in favour of a total ban on the slaughter of the unborn. If the mother's life is in danger it is okay to murder the child.

That is rediculous - Bush is the one trying to push through the BAN on partial birth abortion. There is NEVER a time in partial birth abortion where the mother's life is in danger. Every doctor will tell you that if the mother is healthy enought to go through a partial birth abortion, she is healthy enough to go through a full birth. Bush has even stated this, so I am not sure what you are talking about.

Furthermore, it is clear that Bush does not support abortion of any kind... preferring instead a culture of life.

I totally oppose any pre-natal murder

As does Bush - but he doesn't get to make that decision. It's been forced upon us by liberal activist judges. So... what CAN Bush do? He can try to appoint judges that will strictly interpret the constitution instead of legislating from the Bench. Ooops! What happened when he tried to do that? The liberals and democrats filibustered his selections!! Remember Miguel Estrada? He would certainly have made an impact for life in the court system. Why did the Democrats filibuster him? Because of his Pro-Life, anti-abortion beliefs.

During Bush's next term, there will be anywhere from 2 to 4 Supreme Court Justices who are replaced. Just think how horrible it would be for those who oppose homosexual marriage and abortion any John Kerry nominations would have been in the supreme court. Now, Bush will be free to nominate men like Miguel Estrada to the supreme court and we could actually see some real change for the better happen. CLEARLY Bush's re-election is cause for celebration and rejoicing!

 

[tragic_pizza]

He won't address the point, Gup. OK, maybe he'll lower himself to address you. He certainly can't hold his nose long enough to address me.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by here now:
PA Jim-I don't appreciate you deliberately sabatogging my quote.

NOTICE, that I said that: I think that most Christains understsand that no one is absolutely perfect. Which for SOME reason you choose to leave out. [/b]

here now,

I didn't deliberately sabatoge your quote. Sorry if you took it that way. It is customary to cut all but the point being addressed, although I normally indicate that I have done that with "...". I neglected to do so in this case, I'm sorry.

"Nobody's perfect" is what I left out, because it was not relevant to the point of my reply, which was that you seemed to be indicating that enthusiasm over the candidacy of GW Bush was an indication of a person's salvation. I hope you can see how far off base, not to mention highly judgemental, that is.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by Gup20:
So homosexuality is worse than murder... worse than blaspheming the holy spirit... worse than not accepting Jesus as your savior?
...

Now you've changed the question. Why did you do that?

The question for which you quote my answer was:

Originally posted by Gup20:Let me ask you, C4K .... is homosexuality worse than any other sin??

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by Gup20:
...
Sin is Sin. The wage of ANY sin is the same wage of any other sin - death. Period.

If you believe the Bible, then you know that death entered this world because Eve ate a piece of fruit she was told not to.... so, Jim, is homosexuality really worse than eating too many cheeseburgers? Our eternal life on earth with no pain or suffering was lost when Eve ate an apple (fruit). What is worse than death and eternity in hell? Is homosexuality going to give a person death and hell more so than any other sin? I think not.

So then... why is homosexuality worse than lying or adultry? Because of our culture and society and the expectations and ramifications of them. So spiritually it's no worse than any other sin... the same remedy is available as is available to any other sinner (salvation). But physically in our society it is worse. Therefore, our society has rules that govern the severity of the punishment as it corrresponds to the severity of the crime (God does not).

Would you remove your pastor for serial adultery with several women in the church? I'd bet that you would.

Would you remove him for a two traffic violations in the same week? I'd bet that you wouldn't.

Would you propose a jail sentence for armed robbery? I'd bet that you would.

Would you propose a jail sentence for littering? I'd bet that you wouldn't.

Why? Because some sins are worse than others.

And, you are correct that even the tiniest, most "invisible" sin damns us to an eternity in hell. Thanks be to God for the Lord Jesus Christ, without whom we would all surely go to hell.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gup20:
So homosexuality is worse than murder... worse than blaspheming the holy spirit... worse than not accepting Jesus as your savior?
...

Now you've changed the question. Why did you do that?

The question for which you quote my answer was:

Originally posted by Gup20:Let me ask you, C4K .... is homosexuality worse than any other sin??

</font>[/QUOTE]To which you answered an unequivocal "yes," then when challenged, you equivocated.

So... which is it, Jim?

 

[Gup20]

He won't address the point, Gup. OK, maybe he'll lower himself to address you. He certainly can't hold his nose long enough to address me.

Simmer down pizza boy! lol. Lets keep the tone here from getting too negative. We can have differences of opinion here and still communicate those differences in love.

So to that end - lets see Pizza's point addressed! I haven't seen a satisfactory answer yet either.

Now you've changed the question. Why did you do that?

Not really - to God, sin is sin. All sin has the same punishment. To man, there are degrees of transgression that warrent degrees of punishment. But with God... all sin is the same and has the same punishment - death.

Mans way - speeding = fine, burglery = jail, attempted murder = prison, multiple murders = death penalty.

Gods way - speeding = death, burglery = death, eating apples when told not to = death, lying = death.

See the difference? The wages of sin (doesn't matter what sin) is death. All sin separates us from God.

Would you remove your pastor for serial adultery with several women in the church? I'd bet that you would.

Again, Bush is not my pastor. Would we remove a president for adultry with 2 women - ironic that Clinton did just that - no we wouldn't appearantly. Why the difference in the way we treat them? They have entirely different roles and responsibilities in our lives. Like I said - Bush did not get elected to be our national pastor.

If our Pastor knowingly appointed a homosexual to a place of authority or leadership in the church, would I think that was wrong? Yes, I think so. But the president doesn't have the same responsibilities as a pastor. He isn't a spiritual leader. He can definately lead the country towards the kingdom of GOd and his will for our country, but he is not our pastor... nor should we hold him to the same standards we hold our pastor.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Gup, you're not following what I'm trying to say.

My point about an adulterous pastor has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, etc. I was pointing out that there are differing severities of sin. You would oust your pastor for serial adultery, but not for a traffic ticket. That's because some things are more serious than others.

Note that I AGREE WITH YOU that ANY sin separates man from God and requires hell as punishment. Hence, the Blood of Christ, which cleanseth us from all unrighteousness.

But, the fact that even the slightest sin sends a person to hell is an indication of the absolute holiness of God. It does not mean that all sins are "equal".