Featured But God Is Love!

WHY God does what God does is almost always known only to God.

You are ignoring the problem of sin and all of the scripture about the inability and unwillingness of man to come to God. Here are three verses for you to consider what they tell you about PEOPLE:

• And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. [Genesis 3:8 NKJV]
• "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." [John 3:19-20 NKJV]
• "And you [He made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." [Ephesians 2:1-3 NKJV]

What is the common thread throughout these verses, how does that common thread refute PELAGIANISM, and why is that common thread a problem to be overcome in your "Option #1"?

John Wesley came up with one answer, but there are others. I merely hope for honest Christians to acknowledge the problem rather than pretend the verses (and truth) do not exist.

 

Justice is "punish the guilty and free the innocent" ... How is salvation JUST?
Justice is "All have sinned, so All are damned." That is Justice.

The Angels (fallen and unfallen) received Justice.

 

... that would not be "fair".
(sorry, I couldn't resist)

 

Just a hunch, but maybe it keeps getting invoked because it summarizes and articulates perfectly why God became man.

 

I think so, yes.

St. Paul summarized it similarly: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)

 

Can you not read? Calvinists are the ones that put God in that position. But why would I surprised that you would want to place that on others. Your theology does that and calvinists will just deny that fact.

 

Oh I understand why people sin. That is not the issue though. Calvinists refuse to look in the mirror and accept the fact that their theology makes God responsible for what man does, that includes that they sin. Free will makes man responsible but you insist that man has no free will and that God decree all things that happen so your theology causes this trap that your trying to dig yourself out of. Change your theology.

 

Wrong. Justice, as the quote from Rom 3:26 points out, is those that do not accept Christ Jesus are damned, those that freely do are saved. We are not talking about angels here are we, were talking about humanity so stop with the attempt to deflect the issue. Calvinists really have a problem with what the bible says.

Who do you think this refers to " that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Man or angels? It is man that is justified by faith not angels. Are you going to avoid the issue again.

 

Nice one. And we know that God does not have to be fair but He is just.

 

How do you avoid the atonement in these verses" Joh 3:14-18?
Joh 3:14 even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We have the atonement {sufficient for all} and we have redemption {efficient for those that believe}. Those blinders are causing you problems again.

Actually we do want justice. Why would we not? Would you rather that He just be arbitrary in who gets saved? Why did Christ Jesus come here?
1Ti 1:15 ...Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, Are you one, then He came to save you. And He saves those that believe, that is justice?
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

One verse in context sure does.

 

Im interested to know how you see what he posted as inaccurate?

 

• [Romans 1:24, 26, 28 NASB20] 24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. ... 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged natural relations for that which is contrary to nature, ... 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper,

According to Silverhair, Calvinism claims that when Romans 1 (quoted above) states that "God gave them up/over to" (sin) it really means that "God decreed that they would reject God". Does Romans 1 say that God makes men sin (as the claim "God decreed that they would" carries at its core?) It is inaccurate to ascribe "hyper-calvinist fatalism" as a teaching of Calvinism. That God draws the elect is affirmed by Calvinists (and scripture). That the reprobate (not His sheep) are "given up" to their natural desires is also affirmed by Calvinism (and scripture). That God compels men to be and do evil is not affirmed by Calvinism (or scripture) and is not necessary ... men need no HELP to be and do evil, they only need that which restrains them from evil to be lifted so they can follow their natural desires and do as they please (the true 'free will' of men).

It is a misrepresentation at the core of MOST of Silverhair's criticisms of Calvinism. I hate Silverhair's 'evil god' of his evil 'strawman calvinism' as much as he does. However that is not what Reformed Theology actually teaches (because it is not what the Bible actually teaches).

 

The problem for you is that Romans 3:26 says absolutely nothing about" freely accepting or rejecting."
Silverhair, your presupposition forces accept or reject into the verse, but the verse doesn't ever say what you say.
Romans 3:26
It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Here you have added your man-made philosophy when the text does not actually do so.

 

First, we are talking about 1st century slavery and Paul’s comments referred to that. Slave owners would give their slaves a small wage, which could be saved over many years and purchase their freedom. Sin, however, only offers death as a wage. Thus, “the wages of sin is death”.

Second: You are “saddened” because you are basing your beliefs on a man made understanding of what is “fair”, not what scripture reveals; which is evident by your egregious belief that “many are saved without having heard the gospel”.

God “held out salvation” to those under the OT Law, knowing that not one single person would be justified by the Law. Does that sadden you? Do you judge God as unfair?

God already knows who will be saved and who will reject (He is omniscient: He knows everything) and yet, He commands us to preach the gospel (holding out the offer of salvation) to all people, knowing before hand most won’t believe. Does that sadden you? Will you judge God as unfair?

For me, God is the one Who could have rightly condemned every person on the planet to hell because we deserve it. Instead, He has poured out His love and grace on those He has chosen.

For you, God must conform to your understanding of righteousness and fairness. In short, you have created a god in your own mind that has nothing to do with The One True God revealed in scripture

Peace to you

 

There are many posts of his that mischaracterize reformed theology.

In this particular post, he claims God decreed mankind to reject salvation. I don’t believe that.

peace to you