Dear Larry -- we're obviously not communicating very well, are we? I cited the essay by name. You could Google it, right? Look for para. 4, last sentence.
Yes, but you did not say whether you copied from some other site, or whether you had the actual book right in front of you. It makes a difference since copied quotes rarely include context. As has been pointed out, Lewis was not talking about Calvinism, and his comments don't even apply to this topic.
But what you are saying is the Christ is the "Great Teacher" of the "elect" but not the "Great Savior" because God chose them arbitrarily!
I would appreciate if you would let me speak for myself. I am most assuredly not saying that. Christ is the great Savior.
Look at it like Lewis did -- you're looking for an explanation of the salvation of men.
No, I am not. I am looking to see what God said.
Im sorry, Larry, but this is another error of Calvinism -- the "total inability" of man. How impossible it is for man to do good, though men choose and do good every day!
Your response reveals that you don't know what "total inability" means. It does not mean that man can do no good. It means that he is unable to please God.
Your comment reveals that you see Christ, then, as the "Great Teacher." Maybe you didn't mean to say it that way?? IOW, how much knowledge is saving to you, Larry?
I meant to say what I said. I did not intend for you to twist it.
Please, PLEASE show me my error in that.
Will you listen this time?
I would love to be able to communicate with you but it so appears that all the "elect" are/will be saved and all the saved are "elect." The ONLY intermediate step you've given me to work with is something you call "effectual calling" and much as I tried to enquire on that issue (even designing comparative diagrams!), I still do not see my confusion as much as I see your indoctrination.
Election is something God does in eternity past. Salvation is something that happens in time, that generally refers to the whole process of salvation which includes election, calling, repentance/faith, regeneration, justification, sanctification, sealing, glorification, etc.
One is elect before he is saved (2 tim 2:10).
It's almost like an "afterthought" though, Larry.
No, it's nothing like that at all. Again, this just shows that you do not understand what we have been saying for years.
Sure it does (1) -- your view is strongly linked to OT Judaism wherein their "choosing" was the explanation for their salvation. And it wasn't even the true picture.
My view has nothing to do with OT Judaism.
As for (2) -- "unconditional election" is Calvinism, right? That "explanation" lies outside the shed blood of Christ as regarding who is saved and who is not. That the blood is later applied to the "elect" or is applied to their account "before the foundation of the world" is, as I see it, merely an extension of OT Judaism.
You see it wrongly. Unconditional election is scriptural. It does not lie outside the shed blood of Christ but rather contemplates it. The lapsarian views attempt to describe this.
As to (3) -- we don't communicate, Larry, because (from my perspective at least) you are not teachable.
I am very teachable. But that happens when someone knows more about a topic than I do. I am sure there are a great many things you could teach me. What Calvinists believe is simply not onf of them.
I have endeavored mightily to make peace among brethern around the truth of God's word (see my post above to donnA) -- to achieve the "unity of the faith and of the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
You haven't endeavored mightily inasmuch as you keep saying things that aren't true.
I have tried tirelessly to understand some of the lame, extrabiblical definitions that Calvin gives to terms and ideas, but Larry -- if they don't appear in scripture, how can you accuse ME of and not Calvin of "flaws?" Maybe you wouldn't recognize a flaw if you saw one.
I am not making any statement about Calvin. I recognize a flaw when I see it. That is how I know your posts are flawed.
Well, you can use your influence and we can just go on not considering things that you find uncomfortable. That wouldn't be very honest of you though, would it.
I am not the least bit uncomfortable. In all your posting on this topic, you have yet to plant even one scintilla of doubt in my mind. Each time I go back to Scritpure, and compare it with your posts, I find that Scripture is right, and you are not.
My recommendation of shutting this thread down is because 1) it is based on a misuse of Lewi's words and a misrepresentation of Calvinists' beliefs, and 2) it is a rehash of old stuff.
Why take up the bandwidth by repeating it?
