Calvinism and its glaring oversights .

[Iconoclast]

SavedByGrace,

This passage destroys much of Calvinism and no Reformed/Calvinist can really answer it

New King James Version Luke 22:20-22 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table. And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!”

This has no effect on Calvinism, Paul uses this very account to demonstrate the peril of those who partake in an unholy manner;

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

 

[Iconoclast]

Still avoiding the passage that clearly shows Judas took the bread and wine and Jesus telling him that He was to die for his sins. No amount of passages that you can quote can change this fact

Judas was not told that Jesus died for his sins.Judas was not given to Jesus.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Judas was not told that Jesus died for his sins.Judas was not given to Jesus.

So according to you both Jesus and Luke are wrong. That says it all about you

 

[Iconoclast]

The contrast in the NT. is between salvation in Israel only, or in all the world.

You should be praying that you are wrong because if you are right


I'm not alone as you may believe. In this tiny little board I may not have many supporters but I have Christ Jesus. I believe His will and that is that we all believe in Him because He is not willing that any perrish
2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This you deny sadly
MB[/QUOTE]
No one follows your error. Every single person Peter spoke of is going to be saved, not one of the elect will be lost.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You should be praying that you are wrong because if you are right


I'm not alone as you may believe. In this tiny little board I may not have many supporters but I have Christ Jesus. I believe His will and that is that we all believe in Him because He is not willing that any perrish
2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This you deny sadly
MB

No one follows your error. Every single person Peter spoke of is going to be saved, not one of the elect will be lost.[/QUOTE]

Yet more reformed codswallop

 

[Iconoclast]

So according to you both Jesus and Luke are wrong. That says it all about you

lol, coming from you I am fine with what you say, as you are void of understanding the Covenant salvation the bible teaches. Judas was never given to Jesus. Jesus did not die for him.
I showed what Jesus and Luke had to say about it.

I believe Jesus accomplished redemption.
Every single person He died for is going to be saved.
Jesus taught it.
Sorry you are unable to welcome the truth.

 

[MB]

no message

 

[Iconoclast]

No one follows your error. Every single person Peter spoke of is going to be saved, not one of the elect will be lost.

Yet more reformed codswallop[/QUOTE]
We are coming up on a new year, perhaps truth will visit you this year.

You describe a God who cannot do what He would like to do.
Reformed brothers know the God who accomplishes everything 100%
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

lol, coming from you I am fine with what you say, as you are void of understanding the Covenant salvation the bible teaches. Judas was never given to Jesus. Jesus did not die for him.
I showed what Jesus and Luke had to say about it.

I believe Jesus accomplished redemption.
Every single person He died for is going to be saved.
Jesus taught it.
Sorry you are unable to welcome the truth.

Tell me what Jesus words are in the passage in Luke 22

 

[Iconoclast]

No one follows your error. Every single person Peter spoke of is going to be saved, not one of the elect will be lost.

This statement maybe true but you are not elect unless you are a Jew. No worries though most of those in heaven will not be elect either. One thing for sure only those who believe in Jesus Christ will be there.
MB[/QUOTE]
.
You have been corrected by many on this board. You are not open to the truth as of yet. There will not be any non-elect person in Heaven.
You do not understand who is a biblical Jew.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tell me what Jesus words are in the passage in Luke 22

21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament,
which is shed for many
for the remission of sins.[many, not all]

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Judas did not make it into the Kingdom ,did he?
Jesus said the blood was shed for MANY, not all.

 

[SavedByGrace]

21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament,
which is shed for many
for the remission of sins.[many, not all]

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Judas did not make it into the Kingdom ,did he?
Jesus said the blood was shed for MANY, not all.

Matthew Henry

“He discoursed with them concerning him that should betray him, who was now present. He signifies to them that the traitor was now among them, and one of them, v. 21. By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him”

John Calvin

“And therefore Luke employs a connecting particle which marks a contrast: but yet, (plh<n) 1o, the hand of him that betrayeth me. And though Luke adds this saying of Christ after the supper was finished, we cannot obtain from it any certainty as to the order of time, which, we know, was often disregarded by the Evangelists. Yet I do not deny that it is probable that Judas was present, when Christ distributed to his disciples the symbols of his flesh and blood.”

John Gill

“with me on the table; and is an aggravation of his sin, that one that sat with him at his table, ate bread with him, and dipped his morsel in the same dish, should be the betrayer of him, according to the prophecy in Ps 41:9 as well as describes and points at the person that should do this action, even one of his disciples; for which disciples, he had just now said, his body is given, and his blood is shed. The phrase, "with me", is left out in the Syriac and Persic versions. From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over.”

 

[Iconoclast]

Matthew Henry

“He discoursed with them concerning him that should betray him, who was now present. He signifies to them that the traitor was now among them, and one of them, v. 21. By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him”

John Calvin

“And therefore Luke employs a connecting particle which marks a contrast: but yet, (plh<n) 1o, the hand of him that betrayeth me. And though Luke adds this saying of Christ after the supper was finished, we cannot obtain from it any certainty as to the order of time, which, we know, was often disregarded by the Evangelists. Yet I do not deny that it is probable that Judas was present, when Christ distributed to his disciples the symbols of his flesh and blood.”

John Gill

“with me on the table; and is an aggravation of his sin, that one that sat with him at his table, ate bread with him, and dipped his morsel in the same dish, should be the betrayer of him, according to the prophecy in Ps 41:9 as well as describes and points at the person that should do this action, even one of his disciples; for which disciples, he had just now said, his body is given, and his blood is shed. The phrase, "with me", is left out in the Syriac and Persic versions. From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over.”

yup,
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

 

[atpollard]

to give advice to someone about a subject that they already know about

Then why would you say something as obviously mistaken as:

“Remember the words of the Lord Jesus WHOSOEVER, and I can wholeheartedly agree with John Calvin here that Jesus means "everyone without exception". Say Amen!”
​

when “whosoever” means “whoever” which means “the person who” ... and clearly “the person who believes” is not “everyone without exception”?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Then why would you say something as obviously mistaken as:

“Remember the words of the Lord Jesus WHOSOEVER, and I can wholeheartedly agree with John Calvin here that Jesus means "everyone without exception". Say Amen!”
​

when “whosoever” means “whoever” which means “the person who” ... and clearly “the person who believes” is not “everyone without exception”?

because the WHOEVER means that the Gospel for salvation is OFFERED to the entire human race. NOT that the WHOEVER will ALL be saved! Do you get this?

 

[Iconoclast]

because the WHOEVER means that the Gospel for salvation is OFFERED to the entire human race. NOT that the WHOEVER will ALL be saved! Do you get this?

no one questions the free offer of the gospel

 

[atpollard]

because the WHOEVER means that the Gospel for salvation is OFFERED to the entire human race. NOT that the WHOEVER will ALL be saved! Do you get this?

Not the “whoever” in John 3:16. That is a specific reference to “whoever believes” and tells us who shall “not perish, but may have life age-during.”

The “world” in John 3:16 that God “so loved” may be the entire human race, but the entire human race is not “whoever believes” because may people do not believe and will perish.

John 3:18 [YLT] he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

 

[MB]

I have an exact idea of what God intended as He has revealed it to the Church.

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

God's elective plan has been unfolding throughout history. For your own strange reasons you oppose these truths. No one is following you down that path.

Scripture says there be few who finds the path to Salvation. The path that is most traveled is the wrong path. Do you really believe the majority has to be right.

The reason you never give chapter with verses is because your affraid that I'll go to scripture and prove you wrong again. The passages above do not address election nor does it support your ideas at all. You most certainly do not know the purposes of God.
MB[/QUOTE]

 

[Iconoclast]

Scripture says there be few who finds the path to Salvation. The path that is most traveled is the wrong path. Do you really believe the majority has to be right.

The reason you never give chapter with verses is because your affraid that I'll go to scripture and prove you wrong again. The passages above do not address election nor does it support your ideas at all. You most certainly do not know the purposes of God.
MB

[/QUOTE]
yes that is it for sure...I am afraid you will go to scripture and mangle more verses...I am not sure I can handle it.
You do not recognize Eph.3.9-11????
it follows Eph chapters 1 and 2,where Paul has shown how God elected a multitude of sinners that no man can number to be effectually drawn from death to life.
I know you are not familiar with these truths.

 

[MB]

yes that is it for sure...I am afraid you will go to scripture and mangle more verses...I am not sure I can handle it.
You do not recognize Eph.3.9-11????
it follows Eph chapters 1 and 2,where Paul has shown how God elected a multitude of sinners that no man can number to be effectually drawn from death to life.
I know you are not familiar with these truths.[/QUOTE]
You know if you blow hard enough someone might believe your confusion is real The reason i don't is because I know you are confused because, I understand what scripture actually says and it does not agree with you at all.
MB