Calvinism and John 3:16

[37818]

They don't. Which is precisely why they think the gospel is foolishness and they will not believe. Read all of Romans in one sitting and actually follow the entire letter.
God must act upon the heart and quicken it from death to life...before they can believe. Until that point, I may as well be talking to a rock. But God. Go and find that phrase in scripture. Look for it and see what follows when that phrase is used. But God, even while we were dead in our sins. But God....made us alive with Christ. Honestly, how stubborn do you have to be to not understand how radically important God is in our salvation?

Only if Christ died for one to believe He died for one's sins is there even any good news to believe. Without that to be belived there is no gospel. Isaiah 1:18.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No amount of free will causes anyone to be born from God. John 1:13. Unless God gives one the new birth one is "toast." Titus 1:2. Revelation 3:5, Revelation 20:15 toast.

if a sinner does not repent from their sins and believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord, they cannot be born from God!

 

[SavedByGrace]

On the contrary, God limited the atonement.

John 3:16-18 DESTROYS that argument, in Jesus' own words. Calvinsim perverts this for their "theology"!

 

[37818]

On the contrary, God limited the atonement.

Man does.

 

[Reformed1689]

Man does.

You sure do think man has a lot of power then....

 

[Reformed1689]

John 3:16-18 DESTROYS that argument, in Jesus' own words. Calvinsim perverts this for their "theology"!

Why do you hyperfocus on three verses that don't even truly address the extent of the atonement directly?

 

[Reformed1689]

Only if Christ died for one to believe He died for one's sins is there even any good news to believe. Without that to be belived there is no gospel. Isaiah 1:18.

Of course. And I also believe God saved, it wasn't just a potential to save. Those who are not elect will never believe anyway. They don't want to. So there is no issue here that you try to create.

 

[37818]

Therefore God must choose to make a person alive before they can believe. Yes?

No. God's word is alive. Hebrews 4:12.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Why do you hyperfocus on three verses that don't even truly address the extent of the atonement directly?

in #2 I have shown that the Calvinistic twist of these verses, are pure fiction. the Bible is clear that

1 God GREATLY LOVES the entire human race

2 desires that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION, were born again

AMEN!

 

[atpollard]

Question. How does anyone have any grounds to believe Christ died for one before believing in order to believe Christ died for one? Romans 5:8 etc.

God is driving the boat …

Romans 8:28-30 [NASB95]

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose.

• One group: those who love God are called according to His purpose.

29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

• He keeps doing all the doing.

So Christ died for those that God wanted Him to die.
(I try to listen to what HE says without telling God who He died for. So I tread lighter than some on “Limited Atonement”, but still acknowledge the evidence that supports it.)

 

[atpollard]

God GREATLY LOVES the entire human race

Except Esau.

 

[37818]

if a sinner does not repent from their sins and believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord, they cannot be born from God!

Wow, That is no place in the gospel of John or Romans. Ouch not there!

 

[37818]

You sure do think man has a lot of power then....

It is man who denies the redemption to be believed in order to be saved. Romans 1:16, Romans 5:8.

 

[Reformed1689]

in #2 I have shown that the Calvinistic twist of these verses, are pure fiction. the Bible is clear that

1 God GREATLY LOVES the entire human race

2 desires that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION, were born again

AMEN!

1. Correct.
2. No.

 

[Reformed1689]

It is man who denies the redemption to be believed in order to be saved. Romans 1:16, Romans 5:8.

And you bring up Romans again who was written to PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY BELIEVERS.

 

[37818]

Of course. And I also believe God saved, it wasn't just a potential to save. Those who are not elect will never believe anyway. They don't want to. So there is no issue here that you try to create.

". . . For many are called, but few are chosen. . . ." God calls more than He elects. Mark 10:45, Christ died for the many.

 

[Reformed1689]

". . . For many are called, but few are chosen. . . ." God calls more than He elects. Mark 10:45, Christ died for the many.

Last time I checked many does not equal all.

 

[37818]

And you bring up Romans again who was written to PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY BELIEVERS.

So? Matthew 4:4 Romans does not apply?

 

[AustinC]

if a sinner does not repent from their sins and believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord, they cannot be born from God!

Indeed, with man it is impossible. But...with God...all things are possible.
Humans cannot save themselves because they will not ever seek God or repent...until God makes them alive.

 

[37818]

Last time I checked many does not equal all.

The few elect are still less than the many that Christ died for. Matthew 22:14. Mark 10:45.

What is the gospel that you believe one is to hear to believe? Re: Romans 1:16.