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Calvinism and John 3:16

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AustinC

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Revmitchell said:
Reformed theology forces them to view John 3:16 through the lens of their faulty view of election. While everyone else understands it by the plain reading of the text.
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Sigh, free-willers only read one verse and make up their theology from the faulty lens one verse. While everyone else understands that the whole of God's Word teaches us the plain reading of the text.

The problem is that free-willers know they have no leg to stand on if they allow all of scripture to interpret their stand alone theology so they avoid the whole of scripture like it is a plague, even going so far as to say that people who follow all of God's Word are cult members. It is amazing how bad free-willers are at Bible study.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
This is the main problem with the theology of the Calvinist, they simply cannot grasp what Jesus is saying, because of their theology!

"For God so loves the entire human race that He gave His Unique Son". This is one sentence and these words belong together. Out of this human race, there are two parts, those who will believe, and those who will not believe. The former will be saved, and the latter will be lost. It is that simple.

It is ONLY your "theology", that makes you read, "He gave His only begotten Son for whosoever believes", which is not what Jesus says
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Or...perhaps it is the entire gospel of John that tells us that Jesus died for those the Father has given to him.
Honestly the myopia of free-willers is awful.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
Reformed theology forces them to view John 3:16 through the lens of their faulty view of election. While everyone else understands it by the plain reading of the text.
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Now you know that is neither fair nor accurate. We simply don't read something into the text that is not written there. For example, I maintain that this verse does not deal with the specifics of who Jesus died for.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Or...perhaps it is the entire gospel of John that tells us that Jesus died for those the Father has given to him.
Honestly the myopia of free-willers is awful.
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Exactly. Perhaps if he didn't focus on three verses and instead focused on the whole book he would learn something...
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
This is the main problem with the theology of the Calvinist, they simply cannot grasp what Jesus is saying, because of their theology!

"For God so loves the entire human race that He gave His Unique Son". This is one sentence and these words belong together. Out of this human race, there are two parts, those who will believe, and those who will not believe. The former will be saved, and the latter will be lost. It is that simple.

It is ONLY your "theology", that makes you read, "He gave His only begotten Son for whosoever believes", which is not what Jesus says
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Must define all and world per the lens of the scripture. and not wanting to have it that God would be unfair to "limit the Atonement"
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Question. How does anyone have any grounds to believe Christ died for one before believing in order to believe Christ died for one? Romans 5:8 etc.
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They don't. Which is precisely why they think the gospel is foolishness and they will not believe. Read all of Romans in one sitting and actually follow the entire letter.
God must act upon the heart and quicken it from death to life...before they can believe. Until that point, I may as well be talking to a rock. But God. Go and find that phrase in scripture. Look for it and see what follows when that phrase is used. But God, even while we were dead in our sins. But God....made us alive with Christ. Honestly, how stubborn do you have to be to not understand how radically important God is in our salvation?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
You and I are friends and I wouldn't want that to change. I would never let anyone teach that in my church and would disfellowship anyone who claimed it.
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Who claimed what? That John 3:16 were not the words of Jesus? Surely this is not the first time you have heard this. It is divided as to whether they were direct words of Christ or if it was an aside from John as the "narrator" of the story. That doesn't change the theological significance so I don't see the big dea.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
No amount of free will causes anyone to be born from God. John 1:13. Unless God gives one the new birth one is "toast." Titus 1:2. Revelation 3:5, Revelation 20:15 toast.
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Therefore God must choose to make a person alive before they can believe. Yes?
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
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Reformed1689 said:
Who claimed what? That John 3:16 were not the words of Jesus? Surely this is not the first time you have heard this. It is divided as to whether they were direct words of Christ or if it was an aside from John as the "narrator" of the story. That doesn't change the theological significance so I don't see the big dea.
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Im sure you don't
 
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