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Featured Calvinism and the SBC (a 2013 discussion between Hankings and Mohler)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Jun 29, 2017.

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The Church is in decline in USA, Canada, and most of Europe. The significant growth is in Africa, and former Communist countries.

    There is growth in the USA, but the growing churches are persecuted by the theologians of the dying churches.
     
    #161 Reynolds, Jul 6, 2017
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I know the SBC started with Calvinists. It also started with anti segregation racists.
     
    #162 Reynolds, Jul 6, 2017
  3. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    To summarize:
    Calvinists read their Bible and attempt to systematize what they read.
    Arminians read their Bible and make up an interpretation based upon how they are feeling at any given moment.
     
    #163 MennoSota, Jul 6, 2017
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  4. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Interesting. Thanks. What those ORB's believe on innocent babies would appear to contradict their official stance in their articles of faith.
     
    #164 rlvaughn, Jul 6, 2017
  5. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    And in the process of systemizing, have a tendency to embrace only part of scripture and reject a substantial portion


    And in the process of making emotional heads or tails, have a tendency to embrace only part of scripture and reject a substantial portion
     
    #165 JamesL, Jul 6, 2017
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    You're just pointing out human nature. You do the exact same thing.

    Which is better? Inductive Bible study or feelings Bible study?

    Feelings is much more prone to heresy and producing disappointment with God.
     
    #166 MennoSota, Jul 6, 2017
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Guess many would feel better having their understanding of the Bible based upon what to them seems what God should be doing!
     
    #167 Yeshua1, Jul 6, 2017
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To summarize, some Calvinists and some non-Calvinists study their Bibles with every attempt at accurately representing the truth yet arrive at different doctrines based on their reasoning out of Scripture. Unfortunately there are also some people who study Scripture through the lens of their theologies (and their own presuppositions). Even more unfortunate are those who don't study at all.
     
    #168 JonC, Jul 6, 2017
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This does correspond to the current situation (not in substance but in method). The SBC was not started to protect slavery or segregation (although this is what some people seem to think). It was started because they (wrongly) believed the issue of slavery should not exclude churches from an association. Just like now, the conclusion was not to separate from those churches but in practice (in choosing missionaries) their actions proved contrary to their words.

    Here we have non-Calvinists saying they do not want to divide over Calvinism while dividing over Calvinism.
     
    #169 JonC, Jul 6, 2017
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  10. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for the clarification.
     
    #170 MennoSota, Jul 6, 2017
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Since I came into this discussion late, I'm going to bow out of this thread. However, I'll leave with this final comment. Synergism (better known as Arminianism) is alive in well in many Baptist denominations, including the SBC.

    Peace.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    #171 Reformed, Jul 6, 2017
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Synergism = a pejorative

    Arminianism is a catch all word for reformed folks to refer to anyone who is not reformed.

    Neither are credible and both are not very nice.
     
    #172 Revmitchell, Jul 6, 2017
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  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The resurgence of Calvinism is the dividing force. The traditionalists just want left alone and not be yapped at constantly about our doctrine. The SBC was founded over the issue of slavery. It was the convention of racists during the civil rights movement. There are still quite a few racist churches in the SBC. I remember my grand father telling me the stories of the SBC churches in our county during the civil rights movement. Most of the pastors were in The Klan. One of them was the leader of The Klan, well, the figure head leader; the Sheriff was the real power holder.
    In this area, I can not think of one SBC church that has over 10% black membership 75% of the churches have 0% black membership.
    It caused a ruckus at one of the SBC churches a few years ago because some black people came to a funeral there.
     
    #173 Reynolds, Jul 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are also Calvinists who see it as being the Gospel itself, and so would see ONLY Calvinist as teaching/preaching the real Gospel, and would see all others as "suspect" Christians, as they would see only God honoring the real gospel , while "tolerant" Calvinists like myself , while do seeing Calvinism as best theology regarding salvation, so see others as legit in Christ!
     
    #174 Yeshua1, Jul 6, 2017
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Please remember that there are divisions even among us calvinists, as some would be seen, as myself, as being"too tolerant"
     
    #175 Yeshua1, Jul 6, 2017
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No need to divide over this issue though!
     
    #176 Yeshua1, Jul 6, 2017
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    and those who would accuse you of that are too arrogant.
     
    #177 Revmitchell, Jul 6, 2017
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I just find it ironic that havie at times harder times dealing with certain calvinists than non cals on issues!
     
    #178 Yeshua1, Jul 6, 2017
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The issue is that synergism, while a characteristic of Arminianism, is not Arminianism itself. But you do bring out another problem with the debate within the SBC. Terms are being loosely used and poorly redefined (synergism, to varying degrees, is indeed present in many SBC churches but Arminianism is contrary to SBC doctrine).

    This problem goes beyond the SBC also (probably everything we are dealing with exceeds SBC boundaries). I've read many articles about the Arminianism of Anabaptist theology. Don't miss that!!! Anabaptist theology, which rejects the view of Atonement both Calvinism and Arminianism hinges upon (the Penal Substitution John Calvin articulated and John Wesley strongly defended), is being called "Arminian" because of its synergistic nature. Likewise we see just about any type of soteriological determinism referred to as "Calvinism".

    Another interesting error people make in labeling others is to call Open Theism "Arminian". I think that it may be of that trajectory (just as Arminianism is of Calvinistic trajectory), and I believe both share a common understanding of the mode of Divine Knowledge (a pre-knowledge of events). But it is pretty lazy to use "Arminianism" and "Open Theology" interchangeably.

    This vagueness is a type of laziness (perhaps apathy...or misunderstanding) that is not helpful at all.
     
    #179 JonC, Jul 6, 2017
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think if you take the time to look closely you'll find Protestants across the board that were members of the KKK and held racist ideas. Some of this we have to chalk up to a different worldview (sin, and wrong, but we can't pretend then was now).

    For an example, read George Whitefield on why slavery is a good thing.
     
    #180 JonC, Jul 6, 2017
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