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Calvinism is a combination of Theological Fatalism and Determinism, or is it?

W

Winman

Active Member
HeirofSalvation said:
NO, simply...no. You are suggesting, in fact, a deduction constructed like this:

1.If God wanted all to be saved then all would be saved
2.All are not saved
-Therefore: God does not want all to be saved

Here is the problem:

We reject premise 1

It is a valid argument, meaning the conclusion would be true assumming all the premises were true. but it isn't sound, because premise 1 is false.
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Correct, non-Cals believe God wants to save all men, but God does not compel men to be saved against their will.

It is just like a fellow asking a girl to marry him. He desires to marry her, but if she says no and refuses, then no marriage takes place.

Jesus already wants to marry us spiritually speaking, we simply say either yes or no to him. He will not force or compel us to marry him.

This is exactly why salvation is compared to marriage in scripture, it works the same way.
 
H

HeirofSalvation

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
Correct, non-Cals believe God wants to save all men, but God does not compel men to be saved against their will.

It is just like a fellow asking a girl to marry him. He desires to marry her, but if she says no and refuses, then no marriage takes place.

Jesus already wants to marry us spiritually speaking, we simply say either yes or no to him. He will not force or compel us to marry him.

This is exactly why salvation is compared to marriage in scripture, it works the same way.
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YUP!!!! He Does whatsoever he purposes...and it happens to be the case that he purposes and desires ONLY to "marry" those who accept him freely. He could have chosen an "arranged marriage" scenario if he Wanted...but that simply isn't what he wanted nor purposed. He is God, and he is Sovereign, and he can play it however he wants, and he CHOSE to play it that way. Cals seem oblivious to this.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
HeirofSalvation said:
YUP!!!! He Does whatsoever he purposes...and it happens to be the case that he purposes and desires ONLY to "marry" those who accept him freely. He could have chosen an "arranged marriage" scenario if he Wanted...but that simply isn't what he wanted nor purposed. He is God, and he is Sovereign, and he can play it however he wants, and he CHOSE to play it that way. Cals seem oblivious to this.
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They believe in a god of force.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The scriptures show salvation is offered freely to whosoever will take it.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Calvinist concept of God is very different than the non-Cal's concept.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
You just go on and believe what you want Icon. And good luck on being one of the fortunate elect, because I know for a fact you do not know for certain if you are one. And you can't WILL it to be so no matter how hard you try.
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I believe what God has granted me to believe winman.Sorry you do not believe God and His promises to save sinners by the means he has ordained. Sorry that you see a God of grace as a monster that you cannot worship, because he does not do what you want Him to.His ways are higher that our ways....I know that to be certain.

I do not believe it will go well for people who speculate about how they will"lecture" God on how they thought he was not fair. That he as the Creator had no right to do what He planned to do without consulting you and team jihad members and asking for permission.
You do not have to look any further than these ideas posted daily to see the depraved condition of man raging against God.
I expect to see these attitudes on display as I go out among those with no profession of faith.....not in a message board of professed christians.:wavey:
I will no go about to make my calling and election sure if that is okay with you....and even if it is not:thumbs:

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth
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Do you notice the command is to MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE.......Brethren...... The command is not deny BOTH CALLING AND ELECTION.....as you see to believe is your"calling"..

as you posted here:
That's your problem, the "god" of Calvinism is not the biblical God. The true God did not choose a certain number of people to save, and choose to pass by all the others unconditionally as you falsely teach.
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W

Winman

Active Member
Iconoclast said:
I believe what God has granted me to believe winman.Sorry you do not believe God and His promises to save sinners by the means he has ordained. Sorry that you see a God of grace as a monster that you cannot worship, because he does not do what you want Him to.His ways are higher that our ways....I know that to be certain.

I do not believe it will go well for people who speculate about how they will"lecture" God on how they thought he was not fair. That he as the Creator had no right to do what He planned to do without consulting you and team jihad members and asking for permission.
You do not have to look any further than these ideas posted daily to see the depraved condition of man raging against God.
I expect to see these attitudes on display as I go out among those with no profession of faith.....not in a message board of professed christians.:wavey:
I will no go about to make my calling and election sure if that is okay with you....and even if it is not:thumbs:




Do you notice the command is to MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE.......Brethren...... The command is not deny BOTH CALLING AND ELECTION.....as you see to believe is your"calling"..

as you posted here:
Click to expand...

Good luck.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
They believe in a god of force.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The scriptures show salvation is offered freely to whosoever will take it.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Calvinist concept of God is very different than the non-Cal's concept.
Click to expand...

Yes, as we hold to God being fully Sovereign, and that He isl willing to reddem out unto Himself a people who would NOT be able to freely come on their own to Him!
 
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