Still doesn't answer my question.
No? Apparently you are. You are saved by you own free will and others aren't.
Grace? What is this grace? Did those who who are not saved receive this grace?
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Calvinism Made Me Doubt My Salvation
- Thread starter Regulus
- Start date
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Did your parents ever make you a dinner that you liked and your siblings didn’t? Does it make you better than them because dinner is palatable to you?
Why do you think you are better than others because the Bread of life is palatable to you and not someone else?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Like that. God lets people use their God given ability to see hear and believe.
Rain falls on the just and the unjust. God is not a respecter of persons. Why do you teach Him to be?
So God gives some this 'God given ability to see hear and believe' to some , but not all?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your asking the wrong question @Mikoo. The question is why does He do so?
John has answered that for us
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Why would you think God does not allow people to repent?
He will harden some hearts after they have continued to reject Him but His desire is for all to come to repentance.
It seems that you think God has pre-determined who He will save and who He will condemn.
Question to answer a question? I'm beginning to think you don't want to answer my question. You made the claims, I'm just asking for clarification. I'll try again:
So God 'allows' some who are rejecting Him to repent but does not 'allow' others to repent. How does God do that? How does God 'allow' those who are rejecting Him to repent and trust Him?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well it is either free will or determinism so if you reject free will then you must think all things are determined. But if man has no free will and all things are determined then God has to have determined all the sin and evil in the world and we know that is not true so your determinism is false and free will is true.
No @Mikoo, free will does not save God does. My free will means that I freely chose to trust in Him. Just as other freely choose to reject Him.
Did you not choose to trust in God @Mikoo ?
Have you never heard of the "Grace of God"?
Yes the grace of God has been made available to all people.
So you believe God sometimes does not allow people to repent. Okay.
Back to where we started. How come some hearts reject Him and other hearts do not?
Based on your answer, it seems that is what you believe.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You keep asking the same question and reject the clear answers because they do not say what you want to hear.
God allows anyone to come to Him who chooses to come to Him. You seem to forget that we were all at one time lost sinners.
By the wording in your question I would have to conclude that you hold to a divine determinism view. It seems you cannot understand free will even though you exercise your free will every time you respond to this thread.
You have no idea what I believe. I'm just asking questions based on what you wrote.
So back to my original question. You wrote Free will to trust or reject, so again I ask:
How is it you were able to trust and others reject? Are you a better person than those that reject? What allowed you to trust?
Yes.
Yes.
So God gave grace to all, but couldn't save all with His grace?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
So exactly who is being excluded?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Wrong, even those who have hardened their hearts would be forgiven if they would freely trust in Him.
What is it with you calvinists that you have to lie about what people post.
As I have said B4 FREE WILL.
Do you not understand what free will is?
God foreknows all those that will freely trust in Him. He is omniscient after all.
It is the calvinist that thinks God has determined all those that will be condemned for no other reason than He choose to condemn them.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Your “deep think” question ignores the simplicity of the answer that it deserves.
God gives men a free will. With what ever God has given men, He is our Creator, we can make our own choices.
How do you decide whether to have eggs or pancakes? Do you want to hear about DNA and neurons? What are you asking. Obviously the answers you are getting are not what you want. Spell it out and we can talk about it. If you keep asking the same question, you are going to get the same answer.
And keep getting answers that don't answer the question.
How does He do that?
How did you choose Him and others reject him?
No at all. But apparently you believe some sinners are better than others and of their own free will alone they chose Christ while others rejected Him.
By the wording of your responses you determined that you alone chose Christ while other lesser men did not.
Oh I understand free will. And realize that you believe your free will is superior to any who have rejected Christ.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Why do you think so highly of yourself as to divide men into greater and lesser categories?
You wrote, God gives this 'God given ability to see hear and believe'.
So ask you does God give this ability to see hear and believe to all?
That seems to be the pot calling the kettle black.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
We are only saying that every one has the same free will the same gospel afforded towards them. We don’t have greater and lesser men. That is the invention of your own thinking.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Yes. Is someone literally blind, or deaf?
2 Corinthians 8:12
For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
Why using only your free will were you able to choose Christ while others did not? What allowed you to believe the Gospel while others did not?