Calvinism or Arminianism

This took place before the scripture where God said he would raise him up.

Obeidiance is better than sacrifice and Pharaoh disobeyed God so it was Pharaoh who chose to disobey God. Now there is your answer, will you accept it or come up with something else?

 

Well there you have it. It was God's will that he disobey! If not God had a funny way of showing it. It was ordained to God's glory with Pharaohs destruction!

 

God is everlasting to everlasting and knows all and sees all. He did not make Pharaoh be disobeident but saw that he would be, so any choosing God did on his part was because he already knew what Pharaoh would do.
You do know that God is a timeless God don't you?

 

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Found in the same context. You cant get much further than before they were born can you! Then up comes Pharoah for illustration in the same chapter. Coincidence, I think not.

 

God is everlasting to everlasting and knows all and sees all. He did not make Pharaoh be disobeident but saw that he would be, so any choosing God did on his part was because he already knew what Pharaoh would do.
You do know that God is a timeless God don't you?
__________________
Do I sense anger or is that fear :applause: :laugh:

 

If that was the case. Paul would never have supposed the question:
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Why if Paul was preaching conditioned predestination based on foreknown disobedience, they would have said Amen!
No Bro. Bob, what Paul was preaching was conditioned on God's will alone & that was a problem for those who want all to depend on man!

 

Paul was explaining to them as I am to you.

 

With as much respect as I can, as man to man, I disagree with this post unequivocally and think it maybe the WORST exegesis on this text I have ever seen in my 30 years of Bible study. Maybe a look back into your old hermeneutics classes or books would help in this, but there is so much to address I do not know where to start.

I in no way claim to know it all, and I do not claim even the title of theologian. I do understand context, and I know it is more then grammar. One must look at the writer, the goal of the writer. It is clear you do not understand what you just did to the rest of the book and the message of the writer.


In Christ...James

 

Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Man's doctrine says " No God, you had 7 thousand volunteers! God says they were elect! Man says God was elected! Connect the dots. God's reserved are God's elect!

 

Yea right! Is that the best you can muster up at this point.

 

Now, if you want to start with the bashing you will have to be more specific. The book is about the vanities of man and the Wisdom of God. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it. I could say a lot of bad things about you but I will restrain.

Sounds like I really hit home though.

 

Fantastic!! NT supported by OT won't see that from an Armeniast

 

Amen...they have a latin word for this...

Via Negativa

 

It seems scripture that does not exist confirms more what they say than Scripture that does exist.

 

yes...it was out of the ball park that is for sure.

 

Here is Paul talking to the same people.
Ephesians, chapter 1
11": In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

"12": That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

"13": In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

Who here do you know that has said that the elect will not believe? And your running from the issue as fast as you can because you know it is nailing your hide to the wall.

 

You Calvinist are laughfulable. You make same old statements over and over and you need each other for support or you fall flat on your face. Here comes BD17 and I just post that God was everlasting to everlasting which you all just love when you are predestinating something but when it tears down your playhouse then you start whinning.


Roma.09

25: As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26: And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Of course it was foreknown that God would accept the Gentiles in and also was foreordained for He knew that Israel would commit adultery.