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Calvinism Question : How does God work through the Soul?
- Thread starter LaGrange
- Start date
Hi Yesua 1,
I know and believe your answer is the right answer but what I’m getting at is this: If man’s soul is made free by God’s Grace, why doesn’t man have the “Power” (Free Will) to make a choice (exercise that Free Will) to follow Christ? Calvin’s whole thesis is the same as Luther’s in that they both deny Free Will can be used anywhere to bring you to Regeneration, Justification and Sanctification. If God’s Grace is in our soul it would have to affect our Intellect and Will. If it affects our Will then it makes it free. Yet Calvin seems to want to say that when you Will to follow Christ, God really is doing 100% of the Willing, you’re really doing nothing. It just looks like you’re doing something - God is doing it all.
Hi LaGrange,
I think we spoke before on a similar issue, but in case we didn't, I recommend you read the relevant chapters of Dr. Millard J. Ericsson's Christian Theology.
My concern is that if you don't get a good answer here, which is ultimately just a layperson's Forum, you might incorrectly believe that there is no answer to your question and give up searching.
Dr. Millard J. Ericsson is a professional theologian and his book Christian Theology addresses these issues. Alternatively, you could write to a Protestant minister or visit a Protestant Church and ask for their guidance.
As a brief overview, from someone who is just a lay Theologian, I would recommend an analogy I was once given.
In our pre-Fall state we perfectly reflected the image of God just as a clear and undamaged mirror reflects our physical image well today.
However, a cracked and damaged mirror will reflect a broken and disjointed image of us. As fallen creatures the image of God we now have is damaged and corrupted. Due to sin (both Original and Personal) we are now cracked and damaged reflections of the One who made us. Glory be to His Name!
All parts of our nature are now corrupted. All parts of our being are now corrupted. Nothing remains of us that is not affected. We need to be renewed in every aspect of our being.
Pls consider:
"And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t."
Romans 7:18
New Living Translation Bible
And also:
"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will."
Romans 12:2
New International Version
Last edited:
Apologies I seem to have misspelled Millard J. Erickson's name as Millard J. Ericsson in my posts.
The correct spelling is Millard J. Erickson.
Stay Strong in Christ.
Hi atpollard,
I put my comments throughout you reply. Thanks again!
First, I am a Calvinist (Particular Baptist variety), so I was not focused on the question of Regeneration preceding Justification, but rather I was focusing on your use of “sanctification” and my knowledge that Lutherans, Catholics and Baptists often use the same terms, but have very different meanings for those terms. Total Depravity only applies to man’s Justification, it is not part of how God sanctifies us.
My Comment: It’s good for me to know you are a Calvinist. I’m glad you are because you would be the one who could clarify things. Actually, when you say Total Depravity only applies to man’s justification, answers part of my question.
LaGrange said: ↑
So what I see is that it says man is “Free to Will” yet in other places that man is not free to Will - that man can’t do anything good.
Question: Is God doing the total Willing in man once he is Regenerated or Justified? It seems that it would have to be God doing all the willing because man Never has a Will that’s free - Free Will.
I will have to leave it to God to give the definitive answer, but here is my best shot at explaining as much as I understand:
Free Will is another term that different folks like to define in different ways, so depending on your definition man either has free will or does not have free will (and both are completely obvious).
Can you choose to wear a red shirt or a blue shirt, or does God compel your choice of what color shirt to wear? It is patently obvious that man has the free will to choose the color of his shirt. An omniscient God already knows what color shirt you will choose to wear and has included that choice as part of His eternal plan. While the color of a shirt is a silly example, a less silly equivalent example is “can you choose to lie or tell the truth, or does God compel your choice?” Suddenly the answer matters. If man has no free will, then God is the source of evil.
Can you choose to flap your arms and fly away? It is a silly question with the obvious answer that man does not have the free will to do what is physically impossible. A less silly example would be “can you choose to live a sinless life and earn salvation?” If man has the free will to “be perfect”, then the death of Christ was unnecessary. However scripture teaches us that no one is without sin, so it is impossible for you to be perfect. Men do not have the free will to act contrary to our “human nature”.
My Comment: Exactly. When I studied both Luther’s “Bondage of the Will” and Calvin’s “Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God”, they both define Free Will differently from the scholastics. I noticed that right off.
So let us now look at your question and a fallen man (John Doe). John was born under the curse of Adam, meaning that he was born into a sinful world full of temptations to entice him away from God. John was born with a flesh that loves the forbidden touch and is easily excited by the lust of his eyes. John has a mind that is quick to think in worldly human logic terms. If John sees something that he likes, John’s mind is naturally inclined to want it. If someone hurts John, his mind instinctively wants to hurt them back. John has a soul that desperately struggles to be master of its own destiny, to dominate over others, to rule and be served. This is John’s innate “fallen nature”, his natural man. This is the “depraved” (bent, warped) body from which springs the lust of the eyes, the “depraved” mind that finds “bless those that curse you” to be foolishness, and the “depraved” soul that refuses to submit to any LORD and demands to be master of its own destiny.
John Doe has the Free Will to do anything that he wants, and the “depraved” nature that wants nothing to do with the foolish things of God. So John exercises his free will (which is in reality a will enslaved to sin) to freely and willingly choose to sin. Thus John continuously stores up for himself more and more wrath from a Holy God. If God did nothing, all of the John and Jane Doe’s in the world would freely choose sin and justly end in eternal damnation.
My Comment: I understand. John is not Enabled.
God created mankind to worship Him and to obediently serve Him. Scripture says that is nothing more than our just service ... that is what we are SUPPOSED TO DO. It is the reason people exist. So God was not prepared to do nothing. God chose to do something.
John Doe was incapable of freely choosing to come to God, because John would never willingly act contrary to his nature and do the opposite of what his body, mind and soul all told him was ‘right’. So God DREW (John 6:44) John Doe to Himself and created life where only death had dwelled (Eph 2:1-10).
You already have lots of really good books by really smart Theologians on all of the scripture and theory about the transformation that happens as one goes from being “sinner” to “saved”, so I will not attempt to discuss the transformation at REGENERATION/JUSTIFICATION in detail. I will just offer a simple personal experiential narrative.
My Comment: Yes, John 6:44 means God’s grace draws John and he is Regenerated.
Before, I was angry and vengeful. I had no use for any “invisible unicorn” god and no belief in any objective morality. The only law is “don’t get caught”.
Immediately after, there was a radical transformation in my worldview and my personality. It was like a light had been lit and I could perceive things I was unable to perceive before.
I believe that God removes the chains that bind our body, mind and soul as slaves to sin when He saves us. The Ordo Salutis is really only a theoretical and logical construct. In reality salvation seems to unfold uniquely for each individual with some events instantaneous and simultaneous and others slowly unfolding over years.
My Comment: Yes, I realize Regeneration, Justification, Adoption and Sanctification can be instantaneous.
Before salvation men are free to choose anything they desire, but men only desire is for sin. After salvation men are free to choose anything they desire, and a war wages within us between our old desire for sin and our new desire for holiness. As time goes on and the Holy Spirit continues to work, the desire for holiness grows and the desire to sin shrivels.
“it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” [Philippians 2:13 NASB]
My Comment: Phil 2:13 touches on exactly what I’m trying to figure out. You’ve described the process, so to speak, but I want to go deeper into the soul and kind of look at it while God is working through it. If I may draw a picture: If you draw a circle on a piece of paper and that circle is your soul. Inside the circle write “Intellect and Will”. Now, draw an arrow with the tip of the arrow in the circle. The arrow signifies God’s grace. Here’s my questions: Does God’s Grace effect the Intellect and Will or not? Does this soul have the power to choose the Good? With this grace, is the “Will” free to choose Christ or is the Will passive and God does it all? Another way you could look at it is like this: I’m exercising my Free Will to accept Christ but it’s really Christ doing my Willing but I just think I’m doing it. Would this be the way you see it?
I put my comments throughout you reply. Thanks again!
First, I am a Calvinist (Particular Baptist variety), so I was not focused on the question of Regeneration preceding Justification, but rather I was focusing on your use of “sanctification” and my knowledge that Lutherans, Catholics and Baptists often use the same terms, but have very different meanings for those terms. Total Depravity only applies to man’s Justification, it is not part of how God sanctifies us.
My Comment: It’s good for me to know you are a Calvinist. I’m glad you are because you would be the one who could clarify things. Actually, when you say Total Depravity only applies to man’s justification, answers part of my question.
LaGrange said: ↑
So what I see is that it says man is “Free to Will” yet in other places that man is not free to Will - that man can’t do anything good.
Question: Is God doing the total Willing in man once he is Regenerated or Justified? It seems that it would have to be God doing all the willing because man Never has a Will that’s free - Free Will.
I will have to leave it to God to give the definitive answer, but here is my best shot at explaining as much as I understand:
Free Will is another term that different folks like to define in different ways, so depending on your definition man either has free will or does not have free will (and both are completely obvious).
Can you choose to wear a red shirt or a blue shirt, or does God compel your choice of what color shirt to wear? It is patently obvious that man has the free will to choose the color of his shirt. An omniscient God already knows what color shirt you will choose to wear and has included that choice as part of His eternal plan. While the color of a shirt is a silly example, a less silly equivalent example is “can you choose to lie or tell the truth, or does God compel your choice?” Suddenly the answer matters. If man has no free will, then God is the source of evil.
Can you choose to flap your arms and fly away? It is a silly question with the obvious answer that man does not have the free will to do what is physically impossible. A less silly example would be “can you choose to live a sinless life and earn salvation?” If man has the free will to “be perfect”, then the death of Christ was unnecessary. However scripture teaches us that no one is without sin, so it is impossible for you to be perfect. Men do not have the free will to act contrary to our “human nature”.
My Comment: Exactly. When I studied both Luther’s “Bondage of the Will” and Calvin’s “Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God”, they both define Free Will differently from the scholastics. I noticed that right off.
So let us now look at your question and a fallen man (John Doe). John was born under the curse of Adam, meaning that he was born into a sinful world full of temptations to entice him away from God. John was born with a flesh that loves the forbidden touch and is easily excited by the lust of his eyes. John has a mind that is quick to think in worldly human logic terms. If John sees something that he likes, John’s mind is naturally inclined to want it. If someone hurts John, his mind instinctively wants to hurt them back. John has a soul that desperately struggles to be master of its own destiny, to dominate over others, to rule and be served. This is John’s innate “fallen nature”, his natural man. This is the “depraved” (bent, warped) body from which springs the lust of the eyes, the “depraved” mind that finds “bless those that curse you” to be foolishness, and the “depraved” soul that refuses to submit to any LORD and demands to be master of its own destiny.
John Doe has the Free Will to do anything that he wants, and the “depraved” nature that wants nothing to do with the foolish things of God. So John exercises his free will (which is in reality a will enslaved to sin) to freely and willingly choose to sin. Thus John continuously stores up for himself more and more wrath from a Holy God. If God did nothing, all of the John and Jane Doe’s in the world would freely choose sin and justly end in eternal damnation.
My Comment: I understand. John is not Enabled.
God created mankind to worship Him and to obediently serve Him. Scripture says that is nothing more than our just service ... that is what we are SUPPOSED TO DO. It is the reason people exist. So God was not prepared to do nothing. God chose to do something.
John Doe was incapable of freely choosing to come to God, because John would never willingly act contrary to his nature and do the opposite of what his body, mind and soul all told him was ‘right’. So God DREW (John 6:44) John Doe to Himself and created life where only death had dwelled (Eph 2:1-10).
You already have lots of really good books by really smart Theologians on all of the scripture and theory about the transformation that happens as one goes from being “sinner” to “saved”, so I will not attempt to discuss the transformation at REGENERATION/JUSTIFICATION in detail. I will just offer a simple personal experiential narrative.
My Comment: Yes, John 6:44 means God’s grace draws John and he is Regenerated.
Before, I was angry and vengeful. I had no use for any “invisible unicorn” god and no belief in any objective morality. The only law is “don’t get caught”.
Immediately after, there was a radical transformation in my worldview and my personality. It was like a light had been lit and I could perceive things I was unable to perceive before.
I believe that God removes the chains that bind our body, mind and soul as slaves to sin when He saves us. The Ordo Salutis is really only a theoretical and logical construct. In reality salvation seems to unfold uniquely for each individual with some events instantaneous and simultaneous and others slowly unfolding over years.
My Comment: Yes, I realize Regeneration, Justification, Adoption and Sanctification can be instantaneous.
Before salvation men are free to choose anything they desire, but men only desire is for sin. After salvation men are free to choose anything they desire, and a war wages within us between our old desire for sin and our new desire for holiness. As time goes on and the Holy Spirit continues to work, the desire for holiness grows and the desire to sin shrivels.
“it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” [Philippians 2:13 NASB]
My Comment: Phil 2:13 touches on exactly what I’m trying to figure out. You’ve described the process, so to speak, but I want to go deeper into the soul and kind of look at it while God is working through it. If I may draw a picture: If you draw a circle on a piece of paper and that circle is your soul. Inside the circle write “Intellect and Will”. Now, draw an arrow with the tip of the arrow in the circle. The arrow signifies God’s grace. Here’s my questions: Does God’s Grace effect the Intellect and Will or not? Does this soul have the power to choose the Good? With this grace, is the “Will” free to choose Christ or is the Will passive and God does it all? Another way you could look at it is like this: I’m exercising my Free Will to accept Christ but it’s really Christ doing my Willing but I just think I’m doing it. Would this be the way you see it?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I don't know where you get your "theology" from? this is complete rubbish!
Hi Benjamin,
My comments are inside your response.
My Question
How does God work through the soul during the sanctification process? If the soul is made up of Intellect and Will (at least that’s what distinguishes us from animals, plants and rocks)...
LaGrange said: ↑
In addition, when He exercises this “grace in the soul”, He brings about the effect that He intends to bring about. When God created you, He brought you into existence. You didn’t help Him. It was His sovereign work that brought you to life biologically. Likewise, it is His work, and His alone, that brings you into the state of rebirth and of renewed creation. Hence, we call this irresistible grace. It’s grace that works. It’s grace that brings about what God wants it to bring about.
My Comment: I think this is a beautiful way of explaining going from, really, creation out of nothing to Providence, which is God keeping us in existence.
I don't really get into these discussions much here anymore, but in regard to "God's sovereign work", I have a couple quotes I’d like to share regarding, "what God wants it to bring about" which leads to views of “veiled determinism” and how it can differ from what actually does come about. I would refer to these differences hinging on one's perception of the meaning of Divine Sovereignty in which I often categorize them between the differences in one’s views of either: “Divine Deterministic Sovereignty” or “Divine Providential Sovereignty” in relationship to predestination.
My Comment: I think I get it. Calvin divides Providence between “Universal Providence” and “Special Providence”. Special Providence is where I think Calvin gets more deterministic.
William Lane Craig explains, "It is up to God whether we find ourselves in a world in which we are predestined, but it is up to us whether we are predestined in the world in which we find ourselves."
Keathley explains a scenario that fits in with the above using the ambulance analogy. “Imagine you wake up and discover that you are in an ambulance being transported to the emergency room. You clearly require serious medical help. If you do nothing, you will be delivered to the hospital. However, if for whatever reason you demand to be let out, the driver will comply. He may express his concern, warn you of the consequences, but he will abide by your wishes. You receive no credit for being taken to the hospital, you receive all the blame for getting out. This is a picture of the Molinist view of salvation.”
My Comment: There are 2 major views of Predestination in the Catholic Church: the Molinist View and the Thomist View (Banezian View). I follow the Banezian View. I don’t disagree with the Molinist View but I just simply don’t know it. I’ve been told the Molinist View is the most prevalent view today.
As I'm sure you know much of what guides the views of Pre-Determinism rests on views of Divine Foreknowledge at its roots. In regard to this perspective I would say that scripture shows through Counterfactuals of Creaturely Freedoms that all things are not pre-determined according to God's foreknowledge in creation as being logical. This is where I come onto agreement with Molinism, by my perspective, their view is merely expressing these things (LFW) are logically possible within the type of knowledge God has (a type of middle knowledge, rather than limiting DFK and putting into a theological box, and also holding to the importance of not to exclude from Him knowing all things) and giving explanations how this (logical conclusion) can be observed.
My Comment: It’s funny you mention Counterfactuals. The first time I found myself reading about them, I remember I stopped reading and asked myself: “ Gosh, am I reading a theology book or a math book?” Lol It seemed like I was reading a math book with Truth Tables and other logical constructs.
Just my 2 cents of how God works through the soul of volitional creatures with the attributes of sense, reason and intellect who have also gained the attribute of the knowledge of good and evil through their own doing because of the free will ability (an ability never taken away) they were Divinely designed with and blessed to have from the beginning of creation.
My Comment: Banez developed Aquinas’ idea of Motion. Motion has to do with First and Secondary Causes. Banez called it “Physical Premotion” which is the study of how God works through the soul. This is what my original question is about. I’m trying to figure out how Calvin pictured this working.
Thanks for your thoughtful response!
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
The reason is God first regenerates your spirit, you are born again first. Then you can be taught by the Holy Spirit and believe in Christ. So God changes the circumstances of your being to no longer be under the sway, or captured by the devil. The World, Devil, Flesh, none of that can lead you to God the Son as His kingdom is not of this world.
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
We are born of the Spirit, by the Holy Spirit who blows upon whomever He wishes to make born again. He the Holy Spirit is as the wind, He goes wherever He wishes. His choice, not ours to be born again.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
more unbiblical nonsense! so a person is born-again twice???
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
How did I say that in what I wrote??
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
because the term "regenerates" mean to be "born-again", according to the teaching of the Bible:
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5)
παλιγγενεσία, which is from πάλιν and γένεσις, and literally means, "again" and "born". This "theology" that teaches what you have referred to, is nowhere found in the Bible!
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Born again is the same as regeneration, and unless your born of God in the Spirit, you can not believe in Christ as God come in the flesh.
Your flesh can not profit you into knowing Christ, unless born again you are spiritually dead to the Kingdom of God.
If God grants that you come to Christ, you can only come if you are born again first. Your flesh being tied to this world and the the sway of Satan, wont permit you to believe, because your a slave of sin and the god of this world has BLINDED YOUR MIND TO THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.
John 6
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
2 Corinthians 4 says it is God who shine in our hearts to give the light... And He wont abide in a dead heart.
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Your flesh can not profit you into knowing Christ, unless born again you are spiritually dead to the Kingdom of God.
If God grants that you come to Christ, you can only come if you are born again first. Your flesh being tied to this world and the the sway of Satan, wont permit you to believe, because your a slave of sin and the god of this world has BLINDED YOUR MIND TO THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.
John 6
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
2 Corinthians 4 says it is God who shine in our hearts to give the light... And He wont abide in a dead heart.
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
a sinner is "born-anew" only AFTER they repent of their sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. It is when the Holy Spirit "convicts" the sinner, and makes them aware of their sinful lives, and the need to repent and believe, that those who respond, and do so, are "born-again". Not as some Reformed teach, that the Holy Spirit first needs to "regenerate" the heart, and "make" the sinner call upon the Lord, and then they are saved. This is being "born-again" TWICE! I think people like Sproul taught such unbiblical nonsense
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 4
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Proves the unbelieving old man has futility of mind, the understanding darkened, alienated from life of God, ignorant of spiritual things, blindness of heart.
THAT OLD MAN is anyone who has not been born again. They can not believe in Christ and dont want to either.
The NEW MAN though does believe in Christ as God in the flesh, and follows Christ being created by God as it has His light (revelation in to their living spirits) shining in their hearts.
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Proves the unbelieving old man has futility of mind, the understanding darkened, alienated from life of God, ignorant of spiritual things, blindness of heart.
THAT OLD MAN is anyone who has not been born again. They can not believe in Christ and dont want to either.
The NEW MAN though does believe in Christ as God in the flesh, and follows Christ being created by God as it has His light (revelation in to their living spirits) shining in their hearts.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
here you go again! a sinner can only come to God, after they "are born again first"? When are they actually saved, which is being "born-again"? This modern "theology" is so against the teachings of the Holy Bible!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
read John 16:1-10 and you will see that Jesus says that the Holy Spirit "convicts" the world of sin. Of sin, because they do not believe in Him as their Saviour. Note, that in the Greek, it does not say "cannot believe", but, "do not", as a choice to reject the Gospel. This is what Paul found when sharing the Gospel with the Jews, in Acts 13:46, where we read that "
since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life". Can you see their personal REJECTION of the Gospel, and considering themselves to be "unworthy of everlasting life"? Shows that God did NOT first reject them!
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I agree 100%.
W00T! Another NASB fan.
I have an on-topic personal story about this verse. For whatever reason (I choose to believe it was "predestination") I was born with a strong innate internal compass in a family of multi-generational "Lily and Holly" Christians with an Atheist father ("Religion is a crutch for the weak"). That does not mean that I always did what was right, but I can think of no sin that I did out of ignorance. Every act contrary to the will of God that I can remember was a deliberate choice to act contrary to that internal compass.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
humans are still in the "image of God", which was not destroyed at the fall. So all sinners can still either accept or reject the Gospel of salvation.
I am pretty sure you cannot understand what I and the others have posted.Explain your comment if you can ,let's see what you are thinking
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Your making a huge assumption there. the image is corrupted, so it is defective and does not work like it did.