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Calvinism -TULIP

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Claudia_T

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TO EVERYONE


OKay lets look at King David.

Old Testament times. Forget about New Testament right now, allright?

Was David saved while in adultery? and what do you make of the terms "the righteous" and "shall he die"?


Ezekiel 18:24
24: But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Claudia_T said:
TO EVERYONE


OKay lets look at King David.

Old Testament times. Forget about New Testament right now, allright?

Was David saved while in adultery? and what do you make of the terms "the righteous" and "shall he die"?


Ezekiel 18:24
24: But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
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Ezekial 18:30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways", says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin."

David repented.
 
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Claudia_T

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Amy.G said:
Ezekial 18:30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways", says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin."

David repented.
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that is not what I asked
 
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tragic_pizza

New Member
Claudia_T said:
Ezekiel 18:24
24: But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
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Context is interesting here, by the way.

The Ezekiel passage speaks not of King David at all.
 
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Claudia_T

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Ezekiel 18:24
24: But when the righteous (insert a righteous person's name here) turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
 
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tragic_pizza

New Member
Claudia_T said:
Ezekiel 18:24
24: But when the righteous (insert a righteous person's name here) turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
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OK, now that we've clarified that, let's look at the kinds of abominable things Ezekiel was referring to in that passage. To do this, you'll need to read more than that verse, by the way.
 
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annsni

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Claudia_T said:
oh come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

that gets me, you guys have an answer for everything.. or an excuse
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But Claudia - When you read a singular verse, it can certainly say one thing but when you read it in CONTEXT, that makes a huge difference. I was taught that we are to interpret Scripture with Scripture - a verse by the passage, passage by the chapter, the chapter by the book and the book by the Bible. Please read the entire section and see what it says.
 
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Claudia_T

New Member
annsni said:
But Claudia - When you read a singular verse, it can certainly say one thing but when you read it in CONTEXT, that makes a huge difference. I was taught that we are to interpret Scripture with Scripture - a verse by the passage, passage by the chapter, the chapter by the book and the book by the Bible. Please read the entire section and see what it says.
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I read it and it is very simple, actually. It is generic.


when the wicked do something and when the righteous do something thus and so will happen. Nothing difficult about that at all.
 
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Claudia_T

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I tell you what, some day everybody is going to know who the wicked and the righteous are and there isnt going to be any of this trifling stuff


Matthew 13:
47: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49: So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.



Since nobody apparently can bring themselves to say this, here I will say it for you...


David was a righteous man and he turned away from his righteousness to commit wickedness when he committed adultery and murder... at THAT TIME he was an unsaved person and in his sin he was going to die. There was none of this thing where you could say, well he was one of the "elect" and so no matter what he did he would be saved anyway.

Ezekiel 18:24
24: But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
 
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tragic_pizza

New Member
Claudia_T said:
oh come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

that gets me, you guys have an answer for everything.. or an excuse
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Come on yourself. I haven't answered or excused anything, have I?

I'm trying to get to the meat of the issue, not sit around while you simper and prevaricate.
 
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DeafPosttrib

New Member
I would like to chat with you. I know Claudia T and BobRyan both are Church of Christ(CC). They believe in conditional salvation. I agree with them. One thing that I do not agree with Church of Christ - baptized for salvation. Although, I consider, many members of CC are truly Christians. Not because of believing in baptism is for salvation, because of their faithful, follow the Lord. I know all of CC are not Calvinists. I am not calvinist. I strongly disagree with calvinism doctrine. There is no difference between calvinists with IFB people. Because they believe in security salvation.

Recently, Claudia T. presents Ezekiel 18:24. I know what in calvinists and IFB's mind on O.T. and N.T. of salvation doctrine. They believe there were no 'grace' during O.T. period. There was conditonal salvation during O.T. period. When N.T. period comes, the 'grace' occured by with the Holy Spirit dwells within believers' body. Right now, there is unconditional salvation because of Holy Spirit.

That is what dispensationalism actual teaching. Because, it teaches there are different plans of salvation.

Actual, there is the only ONE plan of salvation throughout from the beginning to the end, nothing chnage of salvation.

Throughout in the Bible emphasis us about faith. O.T. saints were saved by faith, just same as N.T. saints are saved by the faith.

Hebrews chapter 11 is a perfect example of O.T. saints' faith with their action.

King David did mentioned on Holy Spirit. He knew that the Holy Sprirt already departed him when he sinned as do commit adultery. So, he begged God that he want restored of his salvation, and begged Holy Spirit do not depart from him.

What if he remain sinning without repent, he would have gone remain always lost at his death(physical).

Ezekiel chapter 18 do apply to EVERY individual even include King David, you, and me too. Ezekiel 18:24 warns to us, if we do not repent, while we are remain sinning, shall bring forth us to death(spiritual).

Obivously, this verse CANNOT support the doctrine of security salvation, as what IFB & calvinists teaching.

There are so much overwhlemed evidences in the Bible mentioned on conditional salvation with warnings, not just in the Old testament only, also, include New Testmant too. That why we ought listen what the Bible saying so.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
 
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annsni

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So, in other words, each time we sin (remember that sin is sin - even LOOKING lustfully at someone is as bad as comitting adultery), we lose our salvation. When do we get it back? When we confess it? So we keep hopping in and out of God's hand??
 
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Claudia_T

New Member
annsni said:
So, in other words, each time we sin (remember that sin is sin - even LOOKING lustfully at someone is as bad as comitting adultery), we lose our salvation. When do we get it back? When we confess it? So we keep hopping in and out of God's hand??
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what do you think righteous and wicked mean in that verse in Ezekiel?
 
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Claudia_T

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Deafposttrib:

AMEN to what you said! Very good... there are many many Bible verses about conditional salvation...

and I really liked your point about King David realizing the Holy Spirit had departed from him.
 
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