Calvinism VS Arminianism Comparison Chart by L. Boettner

[utilyan]

Utilyan,
God is not a man that He should fear.

Please stop putting Him in man-made boxes.
Men and angels fear...He does not.

What does Yoda and Star Wars have to do with the Bible?
God can be angry, because His word says He is angry.

He can show wrath, because His word says that He does ( Romans 1:18 ).
He can decide to hate, perfectly and for righteous reasons, because His word says that He does ( Romans 9:13, Psalms 5:5, Psalms 10:3, Psalms 11:5, Psalms 45:7 ).

If you don't believe His words, there really is nothing to talk about.

I agree.

His treatment of men does not change, either.
Abel was His child, and Cain wasn't.

Election was a fact from the very first.

If He says He did, then He did.

God is not a man that He should lie ( Numbers 23:19 ).

"Please stop putting Him in man-made boxes."

You already have done that yourself. I'm trying to get you to snap out of it.

Exodus 32

14So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Do you think God changed his mind? DO you think God apologies and feels sorry for stuff?

They uses these words so you could understand. his ways are not your ways.


Isaiah 55

8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.

9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.


God does not suffer emotions.



Do you think God changed his mind? The guy who already knows how it all is going to happen.

Do you think God has eyes and ears. God the FATHER is fully human too?

Do you think God the Father walks about in the garden?

Do you think God the Father WALKs over to a place to confirm if something is true rather than just know it?

You think God ACTUALLY gets JEALOUS actually believing the grass is greener on the other side?

We know God has a nose, fingers, arms, a back, wings, feathers, his hair is literally wool.


Brother you have a very low concept of OMNISCIENCE and OMNIPOTENT.

Your idea of God is practically pagan in origin.

When you KNOW everything it is IMPOSSIBLE to get angry.

The only reason anyone gets angry is because THEY ARE FRUSTRATED and without SOLUTION to avoid the suffering.

So you inadvertently believe God is ignorant.

Do a study google Jewish anthropomorphism or christian anthropomorphism.

 

[utilyan]

Its amazing you believe God literally has feathers and changes his mind. But if he says this bread and wine is his body and blood THEN he's lying about it.

 

[utilyan]

"The repentance which is here ascribed to God does not properly belong to him, but has reference to our understanding of him. For since we cannot comprehend him as he is, it is necessary that, for our sake, he should, in a certain sense, transform himself. That repentance cannot take place in God, easily appears from this single consideration, that nothing happens which is by him unexpected or unforeseen. The same reasoning, and remark, applies to what follows, that God was affected with grief. Certainly God is not sorrowful or sad; but remains forever like himself in his celestial and happy repose: yet, because it could not otherwise be known how great is God’s hatred and detestation of sin, therefore the Spirit accommodates himself to our capacity."--- JOHN CALVIN.

God does not REPENT, ie Change his mind.

John Calvin believes God remains forever like himself in his celestial and happy repose.

God is never sad, never sorrowful, never grief, never ANGRY but the reason you hear it is

"because it could not otherwise be known how great is God’s hatred and detestation of sin, therefore the Spirit accommodates himself to our capacity."

Things had to be dumbed down else we would never get it.

This is GOD we are talking about, not donald duck.

 

[loDebar]

" For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." ( Romans 11:32 )? <---- The context here is Israel. Please Romans 11:25.

" He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." ( John 3:18 )?

Lodebar,

One verse by itself is not enough to determine something.
But this one states that those who believe are not condemned, while those who do not are already condemned.
The evidence of that condemnation is that they do not believe.

Again, belief does not determine destiny.
Destiny determines belief.

God made vessels of mercy, and they will believe.
God also made vessels of wrath, and they will not believe.

There is no way a condemned person will ever believe on Christ.

All are condemned
Jhn 3:18¶
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

God is not willing that any should perish
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

yet some do .

 

[Dave G]

God is not willing that any should perish

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 ).

" But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea." ( Matthew 18:6 ).

" Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." ( Matthew 18:14 )

" And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." ( John 6:39 ).

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand." ( John 10:27-29 )


Do you see a pattern here?
I do.

God's love...for who?

yet some do .

Some do perish...but they are not His blessed children.

There is no modicum of chance or "luck" in any of it.
Jesus will lose none of the ones that His Father gave to Him.

 

[Dave G]

But if he says this bread and wine is his body and blood THEN he's lying about it.

It seems to me that you don't know what to take literally, and what to take figuratively.
If you did, you wouldn't keep objecting to His words, as I see it.

<Snip>--- JOHN CALVIN.

With respect,
I couldn't care less about what John Calvin had to say.

If you do, then I'd say that you're probably a Calvinist.

John Calvin believes God remains forever like himself in his celestial and happy repose.

See my above.

Things had to be dumbed down else we would never get it.

This is GOD we are talking about, not donald duck.

Yes, it is.
Did you think I've been anything less than respectful in my view of Him?

That's what I've been trying to get you to sober up and see, Utilyan.
This is serious business.
God does not fool around.

People are going to Hell for being sinners...
They're not going to a picnic.

If you've believed on Him, then there's a lot of "background" behind it...
Such as, you didn't have anything to do with your gift of eternal life.

 

[utilyan]

It seems to me that you don't know what to take literally, and what to take figuratively
If you did, you wouldn't keep objecting to His words, as I see it.

With respect,
I couldn't care less about what John Calvin had to say.

See my above.

Yes, it is.
Did you think I've been anything less than respectful in my view of Him?

That's what I've been trying to get you to sober up and see, Utilyan.
This is serious business.
God does not fool around.

If you've believed on Him, then there's a lot of "background" behind it.

"I couldn't care less about what John Calvin had to say."

Well who fits the bill? Is there anyone in the entire world who has a better understanding of scripture than YOU?

Or are you MINI-POPE Gilbert with the only infallible view of scripture?

I seriously doubt any of your teachers would agree with you.

"Did you think I've been anything less than respectful in my view of Him?"

No at worst its just cute. You believe God makes mistakes and gets frustrated. We all gotta start with milk before we go to meat.

easy question brother, Is there anyone in the entire world who has a better understanding of scripture than YOU?

 

[loDebar]

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 ).

" But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea." ( Matthew 18:6 ).

" Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." ( Matthew 18:14 )

" And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." ( John 6:39 ).

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand." ( John 10:27-29 )


Do you see a pattern here?
I do.

God's love...for who?

Some do perish...but they are not His blessed children.

There is no modicum of chance or "luck" in any of it.
Jesus will lose none of the ones that His Father gave to Him.

We are all his creation and all sinners, God is not willing that any should perish.
so why would God create one and then send him to hell without a chance of repentance when He could have not created them at first. ?

We not all 100 sheep in the sheepfold His? and some strayed. All of creation is His, some strayed into sin ans can be redeemed

 

[Dave G]

We are all his creation and all sinners, God is not willing that any should perish.

2 Peter 3:9 has already been dealt with many times, Lodebar.
If you don't agree, you don't agree.

so why would God create one and then send him to hell without a chance of repentance when He could have not created them at first. ?

I think it's best that you ask Him.

I'm just going by what the Book says, and I definitely don't want to ask Him, "Why have you made me the way you made me?"
The fact that He created me for His glory, as a vessel of mercy, is far beyond my wildest imaginations...considering where I should end up.

 

[utilyan]

2 Peter 3:9 has already been dealt with many times, Lodebar.
If you don't agree, you don't agree.

I think it's best that you ask Him.

I'm just going by what the Book says, and I definitely don't want to ask Him, "Why have you made me the way you made me?"
The fact that He created me for His glory, as a vessel of mercy, is far beyond my wildest imaginations...considering where I should end up.

", is far beyond my wildest imaginations."

It would be to anyone who expected him to be a complete jerk too, Rather than understanding his true character.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

1Jo 4:8 KJV - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

He is also a Righteous Judge and Consuming Fire!

Deu 25:1 KJV - If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that [the judges] may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

Heb 12:28 KJV - Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Heb 12:29 KJV - For our God [is] a consuming fire.

 

[utilyan]

1Jo 4:8 KJV - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

He is also a Righteous Judge and Consuming Fire!

Deu 25:1 KJV - If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that [the judges] may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

Heb 12:28 KJV - Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Heb 12:29 KJV - For our God [is] a consuming fire.

Righteous means good even merciful.

1 John 4

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

 

[loDebar]

We are all his creation and all sinners, God is not willing that any should perish.
so why would God create one and then send him to hell without a chance of repentance when He could have not created them at first. ?

We not all 100 sheep in the sheepfold His? and some strayed. All of creation is His, some strayed into sin ans can be redeemed[/QUOTE

 

[loDebar]

2 Peter 3:9 has already been dealt with many times, Lodebar.
If you don't agree, you don't agree.

I think it's best that you ask Him.

I'm just going by what the Book says, and I definitely don't want to ask Him, "Why have you made me the way you made me?"
The fact that He created me for His glory, as a vessel of mercy, is far beyond my wildest imaginations...considering where I should end up.

He told us, I told you.

The question is why do you reject scripture?

Sin, the results of sin and the individuals that are not God's idea.

If there was no sin, would God still send the "unelect" to Hell?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

We are all his creation and all sinners, God is not willing that any should perish.
so why would God create one and then send him to hell without a chance of repentance when He could have not created them at first. ?

We not all 100 sheep in the sheepfold His? and some strayed. All of creation is His, some strayed into sin ans can be redeemed

Rom 9:19 KJV - Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 KJV - Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 KJV - Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[loDebar]

Rom 9:19 KJV - Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 KJV - Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 KJV - Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What do you think this means ... election? This is true of course but not about salvation

How can a convicted sinners question his condition to the Creator and Judge.

Rom 2:1

¶
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Rom 2:2

But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
Rom 2:3

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

What do you think this means ... election? This is true of course but not about salvation

How can a convicted sinners question his condition to the Creator and Judge.

Rom 2:1

¶
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Rom 2:2

But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
Rom 2:3

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Since your logic eludes me, I am unable to engage in a doctrinal discussion with you.

1Pe 2:15 KJV - For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

I therefore, am considering adding you to my "ignore" list.

 

[loDebar]

Since your logic eludes me, I am unable to engage in a doctrinal discussion with you.

1Pe 2:15 KJV - For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

I therefore, am considering adding you to my "ignore" list.

Just read the theme of Romans

 

[Dave G]

The question is why do you reject scripture?

I don't.
I read it and understand it in context with other Scriptures.

A question if I may...
Do you reject this?
" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

Do you see what it is saying, at face value?
I've even highlighted which part I think gets rejected by so many, most of the time.

If there was no sin, would God still send the "unelect" to Hell?

Lodebar, why do you ask such strange questions?
If there was no sin, then there would be no election, no salvation, and no need of a Saviour.

Just read the theme of Romans

The theme of Romans starts with the condition of mankind in chapter 1,
travels to yet more condemnation in chapter 2 while explaining Jews and Gentiles,
sheds even more light on mankind's condition and the remedy for it in chapter 3,
explains justification by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ in chapter 4,
contrasts faith, sin and justification in chapter 5,
commands believers not to sin that grace may abound in chapter 6,
develops the difference between the "inner" and "outer man" in chapter 7,
contrasts the difference between the carnal man who walks after the flesh, and the spiritual man who walks after the Spirit in chapter 8 while introducing election in Romans 8:28-30,
digs into election and contrasts the difference between vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy ( the children of God ) in chapter 9,

...and much more.


There is no one "theme".
Romans is probably the most complete letter involving the doctrines of Christ, salvation and grace in all of God's word, and contains the "meat" of what is only touched on in the books of John, Ephesians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Peter and 2 Peter.

 

[loDebar]

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:16–17)

Revelation of God’s righteousness in His plan for salvation, what the Bible calls the Gospel: