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Calvinism VS Arminianism Comparison Chart by L. Boettner
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree, Lodebar.
The theme of Romans is the Gospel....and more ( Romans 1:15 ).
It also includes election, predestination, calling, justification, sanctification and glorification ( Romans 8:29-30 ).
"Non-elect"?
That's been answered in my last post.
No sin = no Saviour.
if Adam and Eve would have never sinned, then we'd still be in the Garden.
I do not find an answer from previous posts
Sin did not occur first in the Garden. It occurred in Heaven
You believe God initiates sin, Sin occurred in free choice.
Creation is for the resolution of sin, not the reverse.
Why would God ask sinners to come to repentance if they were already programmed.?
Sin did not occur first in the Garden. It occurred in Heaven
You believe God initiates sin, Sin occurred in free choice.
Creation is for the resolution of sin, not the reverse.
Why would God ask sinners to come to repentance if they were already programmed.?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree.
It occurred with mankind first, in the Garden.
Lucifer the and angels that fell with him, tried to stage an uprising and were thrown out.
No, I do not.
I agree.
I disagree.
Salvation and the gift of eternal life to His children are the resolution of sin and evil.
For the lost, there is no resolution nor reconciliation.
The Lord casts away all those who hate Him and His ways.
God casts all those He does not love, into eternal Hell fire as punishment for their willfully committed sins.
First, He doesn't "ask" sinners to repent...He commands them ( Acts of the Apostles 17:30 ).
Second, there is no "pre-programming" on God's part.
Men voluntarily love sin and refuse to give it up.
The Lord simply gave us, as a race, over to that which we desire ( Romans 1:28 ).
God then enters the "picture" in His grace, decides to pardon some of us in His mercy, and changes a man's heart to be soft towards Him, by the power of His Spirit.
If anything, men are "pre-programmed" to hate Him, because that "programming" is passed on from generation to generation through the flesh...
Adam and Eve "tainted the clay", and now we all pay for it.
Don't blame the Lord...He is innocent of any offense.
We did this ourselves, and unless He decided to have mercy, then all of us would be undone ( Isaiah 1:9, Romans 9:29 ).
He is righteous, and we are the culprits in our own downfall.
I think the biggest part of what you're having a problem with, is that He doesn't save everyone, when 1 Timothy 2:4 seems to say that His will is to save everyone.
You seem to think that He stands back and allows us to determine who is saved...
The reality is, He stood back and let us ruin it all, and then He stepped in and decided who to save and who to punish, which is His right.
If He stood back and let us decide, that would mean that who is saved is determined by selfish men.
He will not allow man to intrude into His mercy and grace ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
This is my final reply to you in this thread.
May God bless you in your studies.
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And who caused this "programming of sin" and "hate of God" that you speak of to be passed on from generation to generation? Who designed that feature in man?
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
In God's word, the answer for that can be found in Romans 1:18-32.
The Lord inspired Paul to develop it quite thoroughly.
We did.
God allowed us to gradually fall into sin and a love for it.
It was not His doing.
However, it was His choice to stand back and allow us to have our free will choice...to ruin ourselves as a race.
So, for all the talk of free will by those who think that their will plays a part in salvation, we have the proof of what our free will did...
It made it necessary to send His Son to die on a cross and shed His blood for anyone He was to save.
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you should have quit a long time agoI agree.
It occurred with mankind first, in the Garden.
Lucifer the and angels that fell with him, tried to stage an uprising and were thrown out.
No, I do not.
I agree.
I disagree.
Salvation and the gift of eternal life to His children are the resolution of sin and evil.
For the lost, there is no resolution nor reconciliation.
The Lord casts away all those who hate Him and His ways.
God casts all those He does not love, into eternal Hell fire as punishment for their willfully committed sins.
First, He doesn't "ask" sinners to repent...He commands them ( Acts of the Apostles 17:30 ).
Second, there is no "pre-programming" on God's part.
Men voluntarily love sin and refuse to give it up.
The Lord simply gave us, as a race, over to that which we desire ( Romans 1:28 ).
God then enters the "picture" in His grace, decides to pardon some of us in His mercy, and changes a man's heart to be soft towards Him, by the power of His Spirit.
If anything, men are "pre-programmed" to hate Him, because that "programming" is passed on from generation to generation through the flesh...
Adam and Eve "tainted the clay", and now we all pay for it.
Don't blame the Lord...He is innocent of any offense.
We did this ourselves, and unless He decided to have mercy, then all of us would be undone ( Isaiah 1:9, Romans 9:29 ).
He is righteous, and we are the culprits in our own downfall.
I think the biggest part of what you're having a problem with, is that He doesn't save everyone, when 1 Timothy 2:4 seems to say that His will is to save everyone.
This is my final reply in this thread.
May God bless you in your studies.
you=.all Calvinists
you do not know sin, you do not know why you are here, you are egotistical in your salvation, you declare you are special to God and others are not, you do not realize your claims ultimately declare God as the originator of sin, without free will.
You insult God by limiting His power, You insult the saving ability of Christ, , etc, etc
Calvinism is false, of the Devil. and tries to blame God for sin and some going to Hell, Satan attacks the church from within as well as from without
In God's word, the answer for that can be found in Romans 1:18-32.
The Lord inspired Paul to develop it quite thoroughly.
We did.
God allowed us to gradually fall into sin and a love for it.
It was not His doing.
However, it was His choice to stand back and allow us to have our free will choice.
Dave I analogize to include you with those who do not believe in free will, in the last post
This post is not helpful, it is uncharitbale, and unnecessary.
Psa 51:5 KJV - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
yes, Rev, you are correct .
are you not tired of saying the same thing to the same people?. You do present the word to them , they respond as they can until you prove them wrong, Rev. They quit the discussion but they repeat the same errors in another post.
Some are just ignorant of scriptures but after you show them truth, they would rather claim the error rejecting the truth you have shown so well.
Is it ego that keeps many from seeing what you have shown so many times?
Do many just do not post?
are you not tired of saying the same thing to the same people?. You do present the word to them , they respond as they can until you prove them wrong, Rev. They quit the discussion but they repeat the same errors in another post.
Some are just ignorant of scriptures but after you show them truth, they would rather claim the error rejecting the truth you have shown so well.
Is it ego that keeps many from seeing what you have shown so many times?
Do many just do not post?
Does this verse confirm we are sinners before birth?
That is a much better review.
Also those of us in the s.e.a do vary a bit between the classics and the Wesleyans on certain things.
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Of course Dave all Calvinist know more about free will that those who practice it. It is just plain simple minded to assume that everyone who is not a Calvinist must be Arminian Typical ignorance on your part.
The easiest believe-ism is Calvinism because, you don't even have to believe. You believe you are magically zapped with Salvation with out believing. I Find your ideas of how we are saved to be foreign to the gospel. You read scripture then you misrepresent it with your own interpretation. God's Word interprets it self. It doesn't need your false interpretations.
MB
I'm not up set but I imagine that the Lord must be because He wants you to choose to love Him just as He chose you to love. You keep interpreting scripture and ever time you get it wrong. When are you going to realize that it takes two to have a relationship with Christ.You and Christ in acceptance of one another You cannot have a relationship with out choosing to. There simply is no such thing as a one sided relationship. The difference between free will believers and Calvinist is that you have nothing that supports your false assumptions but all the so called great Calvinist before you. The very Bible it self proves Calvinism to be completely wrong in your means of Salvation. No one is saved with out submission to Christ and this requires choice and the belief that Christ is who He said He is. Salvation is a narrow path and few there be that find it. Which indicates that we have to search it out but Calvinist make this impossible with there doctrine of total depravity and the inability of man to seek God. This is the biggest lie of Calvinism..
I'll hand it to you Calvinist they have there doctrine all sewed up. I have never seen any other implied religion so full of man instead of God. Your religion is worshiping man.
MB
Do those who practice free will have an identity? Large/dominate groups most often chose a name.
Not willing to remain simple minded in your view, please provide the name of the alternate group.
Supporting documentation please.
Supporting documentation please. Or, is this you imagination running wild?
Did Saul, on the road to Damascus exercise his free will by asking Christ to save him?
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Yea we do it is called Christian
Therefore, anyone who does not endorse free will is by default not a child of God?
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