Nope, good soil is the one regenerated and already prepared by God to receive the Gospel!
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Calvinism: What Have We Been Elected To?
- Thread starter atpollard
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Then when we Particular Baptists talk about Unconditional Election and Irresistible Draw, why do we immediately jump to ... "forever in Heaven" (glorification) and skip over all of those verses about "suffer" and "hated" and "endure" and "go" and "make disciples" and "running the race" (sanctification)? A disciple must first run the race before he can claim the prize. We have been foreknown, elected and predestined to run the race as much as we have been foreknown, elected and predestined to cross the finish line.
[John 14:15 NASB] 15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
[Philippians 2:12-13 NASB] 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
This is what I'm saying, isn't it?
we explain to the other party that once the Lord saves us by His grace, then we start the process of lifelong sanctification, and part of that will involve having to endure the trials and tribulations being stuck here in enemy occupied ground!
You seemed to be saying that its the born again experience that happens before soil got the seed!
So show me the scripture that defines it.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
This is true. One must be born again before the word can take root in any meaningful way. How about all of the "devout Jews" who were born again under the Old Covenant long before Christ became known?
John 15:16
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
What about elect infants and imbeciles who never hear the gospel?
God does His saving work to them, as he applies the effectual grace of the Cross towards them, as I see all infants who die under His elective grace!
Nope no definition there.
John 1:13
Do you know what a "definition" is?
Yes, as John states that the ultimate decider of salvation is by the determined will of God!
That was not my question I asked do you know what a definition is?
Paul makes it reaslly clear that none can recieve the things of scripture without being saved, so God woul dhave to save the sinner, and not the sinner saving himself, correct?
No he doesn't
atpollard
Well-Known Member
First, the word is Strong's G1588 and defined as:
ἐκλεκτός eklektós, ek-lek-tos'; from G1586 (verb: to select); select; by implication, favorite:—chosen, elect.
Second, Thayer's Greek Lexicon states:
ἐκλεκτός, ἐκλεκτή, ἐκλεκτόν (ἐκλέγω), picked out, chosen; rare in Greek writ:, as Thucydides 6, 100; Plato, legg. 11, p. 938 b.; 12, 948 a., etc.; the Sept. for בָּחוּר and בָּחִיר; in the N. T.
1. chosen by God, and
1. chosen by God, and
a. to obtain salvation through Christ (see ἐκλέγω); hence, Christians are called οἱ ἐκλεκτοί τοῦ Θεοῦ, the chosen or elect of God (cf. Winer's Grammar, 35 (34); 234 (219)), (יְהוָה בְּחִירֵי, said of pious Israelites Isaiah 65:9, 15, 23; Psalm 104:43 (Ps. 105:43), cf. Wis. 4:15): Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; Titus 1:1; without the genitive Θεοῦ, Matthew 24:22, 24; Mark 13:20, 22; 1 Peter 1:1; with the addition of τοῦ Χριστοῦ, as the genitive of possessor, Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27 (T Tr omit the genitive); κλητοί καί ἐκλεκτοί καί πιστοί, Revelation 17:14; γένος ἐκλεκτόν, 1 Peter 2:9 (from Isaiah 43:20, cf. Additions to Esther 8:40 [Esther 8:368:12t] (Esth. 6:17, p. 64, Fritzsche edition)); ἐκλεκτοί, those who have become true partakers of the Christian salvation are contrasted with κλητοί, those who have been invited but who have not shown themselves fitted to obtain it (others regard the 'called' and the 'chosen' here as alike partakers of salvation, but the latter as the 'choice ones' (see 2 below), distinguished above the former; cf. James Morison or Meyer at the passage), Matthew 20:16 (here T WH omit; Tr brackets the clause); Matt 22:14; finally, those are called ἐκλεκτοί who are destined for salvation but have not yet been brought to it, 2 Timothy 2:10 (but cf. Huther or Ellicott at the passage).
b. The Messiah is called preeminently ὁ ἐκλεκτός τοῦ Θεοῦ, as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable: Luke 23:35, cf. Luke 9:35 L marginal reading T Tr WH; cf. Dillmann, Das Buch Henoch (übers.u.erkhärt;allgem.Einl.), p. 23:
c. Angels are called ἐκλεκτοί, as those whom God has chosen out from other created beings to be peculiarly associated with him, and his highest ministers in governing the universe: 1 Timothy 5:21; see ἅγιος, 1 b.; μαρτύρομαι δέ ἐγώ μέν ὑμῶν τά ἅγια καί τούς ἱερούς ἀγγέλους τοῦ Θεοῦ, Josephus, b. j. 2, 16, 4 under the end; (yet others explain by 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6; cf. Ellicott on 1 Timothy, the passage cited).
2. universally, choice, select, i. e. the best of its kind or class, excellent, preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians, 2 John 1:1, 13; with ἐν κυρίῳ added, eminent as a Christian (see ἐν, I. 6 b.), Romans 16:13; of things: λίθος, 1 Peter 2:4 (6) (Isaiah 28:16; 2 Esdr. 5:8; Enoch, chapter 8 Greek text, Dillmann edition, p. 82f).b. The Messiah is called preeminently ὁ ἐκλεκτός τοῦ Θεοῦ, as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable: Luke 23:35, cf. Luke 9:35 L marginal reading T Tr WH; cf. Dillmann, Das Buch Henoch (übers.u.erkhärt;allgem.Einl.), p. 23:
c. Angels are called ἐκλεκτοί, as those whom God has chosen out from other created beings to be peculiarly associated with him, and his highest ministers in governing the universe: 1 Timothy 5:21; see ἅγιος, 1 b.; μαρτύρομαι δέ ἐγώ μέν ὑμῶν τά ἅγια καί τούς ἱερούς ἀγγέλους τοῦ Θεοῦ, Josephus, b. j. 2, 16, 4 under the end; (yet others explain by 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6; cf. Ellicott on 1 Timothy, the passage cited).
And finally, the verses that define the meaning through their usage of the word:
- [Mat 22:14 NASB] 14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."[G1588]
- [Mat 24:22, 24, 31 NASB] 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect[G1588] those days will be cut short. ... 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.[G1588] ... 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
- [Mar 13:20, 22, 27 NASB] 20 "Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect,[G1588] whom He chose, He shortened the days. ... 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.[G1588] ... 27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
- [Luk 18:7 NASB] 7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect[G1588] who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
- [Luk 23:35 NASB] 35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen[G1588] One."[G1588]
- [Rom 8:33 NASB] 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect?[G1588] God is the one who justifies;
- [Rom 16:13 NASB] 13 Greet Rufus, a choice[G1588] man[G1588] in the Lord, also his mother and mine.
- [Col 3:12 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen[G1588] of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
- [1Ti 5:21 NASB] 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of [His] chosen[G1588] angels, to maintain these [principles] without bias, doing nothing in a [spirit of] partiality.
- [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen,[G1588] so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
- [Tit 1:1 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen[G1588] of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
- [1Pe 1:1 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen[G1588]
- [1Pe 2:4, 6, 9 NASB] 4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice[G1588] and precious in the sight of God, ... 6 For [this] is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE[G1588] STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER [stone,] AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." ... 9 But you are A CHOSEN[G1588] RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
- [2Jo 1:1, 13 NASB] 1 The elder to the chosen[G1588] lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth, ... 13 The children of your chosen[G1588] sister greet you.
- [Rev 17:14 NASB] 14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him [are the] called and chosen[G1588] and faithful."
Or...there's Biblical election but just not the way you're defining it.
There is a historic faith, we do not exist in a vacuum. Arminian and semi Pelagian views...are the error...not the norm.
It is not personal as you are trying to make it. There is objective truth like my trinity example. The is individual biblical election in the same way. u seem to be another person who resists truth at all cost and opposes just to oppose.
From a Baptist Catechism with Commentary;
Quest. 68: What is Divine election?
Ans: Divine election is the free, sovereign and gracious work of God
whereby some have been eternally chosen to obtain salvation.
Eph. 1:3–4. 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in
Christ: 4according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in
love.
Rom. 8:33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is
God that justifieth.
Rom. 11:5–6. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a
remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it
no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of
works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
1 Thess. 1:4–5. 4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power,
and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance…
2 Thess. 2:13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning
chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief
of the truth.
See also: Deut. 4:37; 7:6–7; 10:14–15; Psa. 33:12; Matt. 22:14;
24:22–31; Lk. 18:7; Acts 13:48; Rom. 9:11–13, 16; 11:4–7, 28; 1 Cor.
1:27–31; Eph. 1:11; Col. 3:12–14; 1 Thess. 5:9; 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1;
1 Pet. 1:1–2; 2:8–9; 2 Pet. 1:4–11; Rev. 17:8, 14.
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