Calvinism: What Have We Been Elected To?

[atpollard]

Can we have an honest conversation. Most people, including some Calvinists, have a problem accepting the mental image that a good God has elected some to an eternity of life and love and perfect happiness with him, while abandoning everyone else to a fate of eternal torment. Everything good for a few, and everything bad for the majority.

If you will indulge me in a little Bible study, I would like to take a closer look at this election and what we have been elected to.

First some general things that the elect are called to:

• [Ephesians 2:10 NASB] 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

So the first thing is that we have not been called to nothing. The elect have been called to do something. We have been ELECTED from among the population of the Earth to do the specific good works that God has already prepared for us to do. Like what?

• [Matthew 28:19-20 NASB] 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
• [Acts 1:7-8 NASB] 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
• [Acts 2:38-39 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

The ELECT are called to be Christ’s witnesses to the world. When we received the Holy Spirit, we received the commission that goes with Him to carry word of Christ to the world, to make disciples, to teach them to observe all Jesus has commanded.

A word of warning for the Prosperity Gospel crowd, being one of the elect is not like winning a lottery ticket to easy-street. Being one of the ELECT is a lottery ticket to being hated in this life. Don’t take my word for it, read what Jesus and the Apostles say about it for yourself:

• [John 15:16-20 NASB] 16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 "This I command you, that you love one another. 18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before [it hated] you. 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
• [Acts 5:41 NASB] 41 So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for [His] name.
• [Acts 9:16 NASB] 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."
• [Romans 8:17 NASB] 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him.]
• [1 Corinthians 12:26 NASB] 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if [one] member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
• [2 Corinthians 1:6 NASB] 6 But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is effective in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer;
• [2 Corinthians 7:9 NASB] 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
• [Galatians 3:4 NASB] 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
• [Phl 1:29 NASB] 29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
• [1 Thessalonians 3:4 NASB] 4 For indeed when we were with you, we [kept] telling you in advance that we were going to suffer affliction; and so it came to pass, as you know.
• [2 Timothy 1:12 NASB] 12 For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
• [2 Timothy 2:3, 9 NASB] 3 Suffer hardship with [me,] as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. ... 9 for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned.
• [1 Peter 2:20 NASB] 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer [for it] you patiently endure it, this [finds] favor with God.
• [1 Peter 3:14, 17 NASB] 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED, ... 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
• [1 Peter 4:19 NASB] 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
• [Revelation 2:10 NASB] 10 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

So let’s talk about Calvinistic Election. The ELECT have won a ‘cosmic lottery’ granting them the ‘honor’ of being selected by the great ‘I AM’ to work for Him as His messengers in a world that will hate us. This honor will include being mocked, discriminated against, and much worse. Many will be beaten and many more killed. This is what God has elected us to.

We have a promise that those who suffer well to the end, will be rewarded.

• [Matthew 10:22 NASB] 22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
• [Matthew 24:13 NASB] 13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
• [Matthew 28:20 NASB] 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
• [Mark 13:13 NASB] 13 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

God has not warned us that the ELECT will be called to endure “health, wealth and happiness” to the end and encouraged us that He will be with us to give us the strength to survive all of the blessings. We have been elected to be those led at the end of the train of captives. The slaves. The beaten and oppressed. The least in this world. We have been called to be those who DO for God and who SUFFER for God.

There is a story that describes the life of the ELECT both now and later:

• [Luke 16:19-25 NASB] 19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the [crumbs] which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

Does it still seem unfair that God does not ELECT everyone to suffer for His name?

• [Matthew 16:24 NASB] 24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
• [Mark 8:34 NASB] 34 And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
• [Luke 9:23 NASB] 23 And He was saying to [them] all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

 

[Rockson]

So let’s talk about Calvinistic Election. The ELECT have won a ‘cosmic lottery’ granting them the ‘honor’ of being selected by the great ‘I AM’ to work for Him as His messengers in a world that will hate us. This honor will include being mocked, discriminated against, and much worse. Many will be beaten and many more killed. This is what God has elected us to.

From this point on you lost me but it does kind of reveal what your piece was all about. You referred to all the many things saints have to endure but then you seem to overlap it all by making the emphasis about those who hold to a Calvinistic election way of thinking as if to say the persecution you speak of above is exclusively for Calvinistic believers.

We have a promise that those who suffer well to the end, will be rewarded.

• [Matthew 10:22 NASB] 22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

• Acknowledge that this applies to Christians that don't hold to a Calvinistic view as well.

Does it still seem unfair that God does not ELECT everyone to suffer for His name?

So what you're saying is while it may seem unfair that some are not even given the option of Salvation (according to Calvinistic thinkers) that unfairness is balanced out with an apparent unfairness that Calvinistic believers are persecuted and have a hard time in life. You forget two things. One the duration....eternity is forever and this life is but just a vapor, here one day and gone the next James 4:14 and 2) persecution at least physical and horrific hasn't always been experienced by all believers. Again maybe I'm wrong but it does seem rather exclusive that you narrowed this whole thing down to Calvinistic believers. Are you really of the opinion that only such ones are saved?

 

[atpollard]

Again maybe I'm wrong but it does seem rather exclusive that you narrowed this whole thing down to Calvinistic believers. Are you really of the opinion that only such ones are saved?

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Let's start by setting the record straight on something. Neither Calvinist Believers (Particular Baptists) nor Arminian Believers (like Methodists) nor any other flavor of General Baptist (or other believer) dictates who Christ died for or who God admits into heaven. God decides who and how he saves people.

Conversations about Calvinism and Reformed Theology and Particular Baptists always quickly gravitate to the innate 'unfairness' of God choosing some and not choosing others. Unconditional Election and Irresistible Grace. To hear people talk, one would think that the elect are teleported to heaven the moment they are saved, or at least become the recipients of the 'Prosperity Gospel'.

I wanted to start with a different assumption: What if God chooses whom he will save (as Particular Baptists believe)? I can find many verses that say God chose this person or that person or these people. I can find no verses that talk about people choosing God (it is 'implied' in various commands and offers). So whatever men (PB or GB) believe, I was starting from the assumption that God chooses ALL the saved (Calvinists and non-Calvinists).

Rather than focus on the final reward, I wanted to try something different and focus on what God has called the saved/elect/His sheep to in this life. Properly understanding scripture, the elect (those loved by God before the world was created and predestined to be saved) were called to the opposite of the 'Prosperity Gospel' and the 'OSAS' say a prayer and live like a sinner non-Gospel.

If non-Calvinists are preaching a Gospel that says 'believe and Jesus will make all your problems go away', they are blowing smoke at people. The truth of scripture seems to be that God has loved and chosen some to serve Him through spreading the good news and endure some suffering for it.

 

[1689Dave]

Can we have an honest conversation. Most people, including some Calvinists, have a problem accepting the mental image that a good God has elected some to an eternity of life and love and perfect happiness with him, while abandoning everyone else to a fate of eternal torment. Everything good for a few, and everything bad for the majority.

If you will indulge me in a little Bible study, I would like to take a closer look at this election and what we have been elected to.

First some general things that the elect are called to:

• [Ephesians 2:10 NASB] 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

So the first thing is that we have not been called to nothing. The elect have been called to do something. We have been ELECTED from among the population of the Earth to do the specific good works that God has already prepared for us to do. Like what?

• [Matthew 28:19-20 NASB] 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
• [Acts 1:7-8 NASB] 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
• [Acts 2:38-39 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

The ELECT are called to be Christ’s witnesses to the world. When we received the Holy Spirit, we received the commission that goes with Him to carry word of Christ to the world, to make disciples, to teach them to observe all Jesus has commanded.

A word of warning for the Prosperity Gospel crowd, being one of the elect is not like winning a lottery ticket to easy-street. Being one of the ELECT is a lottery ticket to being hated in this life. Don’t take my word for it, read what Jesus and the Apostles say about it for yourself:

• [John 15:16-20 NASB] 16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 "This I command you, that you love one another. 18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before [it hated] you. 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
• [Acts 5:41 NASB] 41 So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for [His] name.
• [Acts 9:16 NASB] 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."
• [Romans 8:17 NASB] 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him.]
• [1 Corinthians 12:26 NASB] 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if [one] member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
• [2 Corinthians 1:6 NASB] 6 But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is effective in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer;
• [2 Corinthians 7:9 NASB] 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
• [Galatians 3:4 NASB] 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
• [Phl 1:29 NASB] 29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
• [1 Thessalonians 3:4 NASB] 4 For indeed when we were with you, we [kept] telling you in advance that we were going to suffer affliction; and so it came to pass, as you know.
• [2 Timothy 1:12 NASB] 12 For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
• [2 Timothy 2:3, 9 NASB] 3 Suffer hardship with [me,] as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. ... 9 for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned.
• [1 Peter 2:20 NASB] 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer [for it] you patiently endure it, this [finds] favor with God.
• [1 Peter 3:14, 17 NASB] 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED, ... 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
• [1 Peter 4:19 NASB] 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
• [Revelation 2:10 NASB] 10 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

So let’s talk about Calvinistic Election. The ELECT have won a ‘cosmic lottery’ granting them the ‘honor’ of being selected by the great ‘I AM’ to work for Him as His messengers in a world that will hate us. This honor will include being mocked, discriminated against, and much worse. Many will be beaten and many more killed. This is what God has elected us to.

We have a promise that those who suffer well to the end, will be rewarded.

• [Matthew 10:22 NASB] 22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
• [Matthew 24:13 NASB] 13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
• [Matthew 28:20 NASB] 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
• [Mark 13:13 NASB] 13 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

God has not warned us that the ELECT will be called to endure “health, wealth and happiness” to the end and encouraged us that He will be with us to give us the strength to survive all of the blessings. We have been elected to be those led at the end of the train of captives. The slaves. The beaten and oppressed. The least in this world. We have been called to be those who DO for God and who SUFFER for God.

There is a story that describes the life of the ELECT both now and later:

• [Luke 16:19-25 NASB] 19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the [crumbs] which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

Does it still seem unfair that God does not ELECT everyone to suffer for His name?

• [Matthew 16:24 NASB] 24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
• [Mark 8:34 NASB] 34 And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
• [Luke 9:23 NASB] 23 And He was saying to [them] all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Paul also says: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,” (Ephesians 3:9–10)

Also, he created us for his glory. In this we see God's righteousness, mercy, and goodness which would not be known apart from sin. And we see his sovereignty in election. And we see his wrath and judgement, unknown apart from sin. “everyone who belongs to me, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed—yes, whom I made!” (Isaiah 43:7)

 

[Rockson]

Let's start by setting the record straight on something. Neither Calvinist Believers (Particular Baptists) nor Arminian Believers (like Methodists) nor any other flavor of General Baptist (or other believer) dictates who Christ died for or who God admits into heaven. God decides who and how he saves people.

True but I think it's safe to say God has clearly revealed the way and manner in which Salvation is offered.

Rather than focus on the final reward, I wanted to try something different and focus on what God has called the saved/elect/His sheep to in this life. Properly understanding scripture, the elect (those loved by God before the world was created and predestined to be saved)

Well atpollard if you're going to expand a Christian definition like this why not go all the way?
'Elect according to the foreknowledge of God'

were called to the opposite of the 'Prosperity Gospel' and the 'OSAS' say a prayer and live like a sinner non-Gospel
.

I likewise don't believe in OSAS. In regard to what you're calling a "Prosperity Gospel" sure there needs to be balance but when it gets to the place where one can't even pray about a genuine need without being condemned well I'd say there's a ditch on both sides of a road.

The truth of scripture seems to be that God has loved and chosen some to serve Him through spreading the good news and endure some suffering for it.

Yes and it's very possible they may do so.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Let's start by setting the record straight on something. Neither Calvinist Believers (Particular Baptists) nor Arminian Believers (like Methodists) nor any other flavor of General Baptist (or other believer) dictates who Christ died for or who God admits into heaven. God decides who and how he saves people.

Conversations about Calvinism and Reformed Theology and Particular Baptists always quickly gravitate to the innate 'unfairness' of God choosing some and not choosing others. Unconditional Election and Irresistible Grace. To hear people talk, one would think that the elect are teleported to heaven the moment they are saved, or at least become the recipients of the 'Prosperity Gospel'.

I wanted to start with a different assumption: What if God chooses whom he will save (as Particular Baptists believe)? I can find many verses that say God chose this person or that person or these people. I can find no verses that talk about people choosing God (it is 'implied' in various commands and offers). So whatever men (PB or GB) believe, I was starting from the assumption that God chooses ALL the saved (Calvinists and non-Calvinists).

Rather than focus on the final reward, I wanted to try something different and focus on what God has called the saved/elect/His sheep to in this life. Properly understanding scripture, the elect (those loved by God before the world was created and predestined to be saved) were called to the opposite of the 'Prosperity Gospel' and the 'OSAS' say a prayer and live like a sinner non-Gospel.

If non-Calvinists are preaching a Gospel that says 'believe and Jesus will make all your problems go away', they are blowing smoke at people. The truth of scripture seems to be that God has loved and chosen some to serve Him through spreading the good news and endure some suffering for it.

The glory of God is not that some are lost, but any ANY of us were ever saved!

 

[atpollard]

The glory of God is not that some are lost, but any ANY of us were ever saved!

Saved for what?
Are we just stuck waiting here until we die and get to go to heaven, or have we been saved for some more immediate purpose in the meantime.

What were we ELECTED by God to be or do? Anything?

 

[atpollard]

True but I think it's safe to say God has clearly revealed the way and manner in which Salvation is offered.

Sure, "God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" [Jhn 3:16 NIV], except that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day" [Jhn 6:44 NIV]. It is so clear that people have been arguing about how obvious the answer is for hundreds of years.

So the answer is clearly "whoever" and "no one".

 

[atpollard]

Well atpollard if you're going to expand a Christian definition like this why not go all the way?
'Elect according to the foreknowledge of God'

I love that word "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). I love that it is not 'omniscience' (God knows everything) but more like 'Adam knew Eve and she bore him a son'. It is knowing people in a deeply personal way. God 'fore-loved' us! Gotta love that.

 

[Yeshua1]

Saved for what?
Are we just stuck waiting here until we die and get to go to heaven, or have we been saved for some more immediate purpose in the meantime.

What were we ELECTED by God to be or do? Anything?

To glorify and honor God in our bodies here while upon the earth.

 

[Iconoclast]

Some thoughts of J.L.Dagg;
The Scriptures teach expressly, that God's people are chosen to salvation. "Beloved, we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, because he hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation."[

The Scriptures plainly teach that the election of grace is from eternity. "God hath, from the beginning, chosen you to salvation."[27] "According as he hath chosen us in him from the foundation of the world."[28] "According to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."[29]

Election is a part of God's eternal purpose. Had it been his purpose to save all the human race, there would have been no elect from among men; no peculiar people, no redeemed out of every nation.

But his purpose to save did not include all the race; and therefore, on some principle yet to be inquired into, some of the race have been selected, who will receive the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world

From a state of condemnation, God, according to his purpose in election, delivers some by his renewing grace, and this is no injury or disadvantage done to the rest.

The doctrine of election is generally opposed by unrenewed men: and even in the minds of those whose hearts have been renewed by grace, such objections to it often arise as to prevent the cordial reception of it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Some thoughts of J.L.Dagg;
The Scriptures teach expressly, that God's people are chosen to salvation. "Beloved, we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, because he hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation."[

The Scriptures plainly teach that the election of grace is from eternity. "God hath, from the beginning, chosen you to salvation."[27] "According as he hath chosen us in him from the foundation of the world."[28] "According to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."[29]

Election is a part of God's eternal purpose. Had it been his purpose to save all the human race, there would have been no elect from among men; no peculiar people, no redeemed out of every nation.

But his purpose to save did not include all the race; and therefore, on some principle yet to be inquired into, some of the race have been selected, who will receive the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world

From a state of condemnation, God, according to his purpose in election, delivers some by his renewing grace, and this is no injury or disadvantage done to the rest.

The doctrine of election is generally opposed by unrenewed men: and even in the minds of those whose hearts have been renewed by grace, such objections to it often arise as to prevent the cordial reception of it.

God predestined/elected out for Himself a peculiar people, to His glory...

 

[Rockson]

Sure, "God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" [Jhn 3:16 NIV], except that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day" [Jhn 6:44 NIV]. It is so clear that people have been arguing about how obvious the answer is for hundreds of years.

So the answer is clearly "whoever" and "no one".

Yeah...sure is good to know though right that Jesus said, "If I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw all mean unto me!" So...when we preach the gospel aren't we lifting God's message up to men? God's says he'll work through that to whom? ALL MEN...Yeah clear as clear can be!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yeah...sure is good to know though right that Jesus said, "If I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw all mean unto me!" So...when we preach the gospel aren't we lifting God's message up to men? God's says he'll work through that to whom? ALL MEN...Yeah clear as clear can be!

Great! Universalism!

 

[Iconoclast]

THE CANONS OF DORT
FIRST HEAD: DIVINE ELECTION AND REPROBATION
ARTICLES 1–18
ARTICLE 1. As all men have sinned in Adam, lie under the curse, and are deserving of eternal death, God would have done no injustice by leaving them all to perish and delivering them over to condemnation on account of sin, according to the words of the apostle: “that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.” (Rom 3:19). And: “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Rom 3:23). And: “For the wages of sin is death.” (Rom 6:23).
ARTICLE 2. But in this the love of God was manifested, that He “sent his one and only Son into the world, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (1 John 4:9; John 3:16).
ARTICLE 3. And that men may be brought to believe, God mercifully sends the messengers of these most joyful tidings to whom He will and at what time He pleases; by whose ministry men are called to repentance and faith in Christ crucified. “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent?” (Rom 10:14–15).
ARTICLE 4. The wrath of God abides upon those who believe not this gospel. But such as receive it and embrace Jesus the Savior by a true and living faith are by Him delivered from the wrath of God and from destruction, and have the gift of eternal life conferred upon them.
ARTICLE 5. The cause or guilt of this unbelief as well as of all other sins is no wise in God, but in man himself; whereas faith in Jesus Christ and salvation through Him is the free gift of God, as it is written: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith––and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Eph 2:8). Likewise: “For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him” (Phil 1:29).
ARTICLE 6. That some receive the gift of faith from God, and others do not receive it, proceeds from God’s eternal decree. “For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world” (Acts 15:18). “who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will” (Eph 1:11). According to which decree He graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe; while He leaves the non–elect in His just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy. And herein is especially displayed the profound, the merciful, and at the same time the righteous discrimination between men equally involved in ruin; or that decree of election and reprobation, revealed in the Word of God, which, though men of perverse, impure, and unstable minds wrest it to their own destruction, yet to holy and pious souls affords unspeakable consolation.

 

[atpollard]

Yeah...sure is good to know though right that Jesus said, "If I be lifted up from the earth I'll draw all men unto me!" So...when we preach the gospel aren't we lifting God's message up to men? God's says he'll work through that to whom? ALL MEN...Yeah clear as clear can be!

I think your exegesis is flawed on several levels.

First, Jesus was 'lifted up' at the Cross. It is a reference to the snake on a pole that saved the children of Israel that looked to it. In the same way, those who have sinned and look to the crucified Christ will be saved.

However, let's just accept your reading of the scripture as the correct one. Since Jesus said that preaching the Gospel will draw ALL MEN to Him, then we should expect a 100% conversion rate among those who hear us preach the Gospel. If even one person has no interest in being drawn to Jesus, then Jesus lied (or scripture is flawed and misquoted him).

Do you experience universal acceptance of the Gospel by everyone who hears it? All men drawn to Jesus.

As an aside, "all" can mean 'some of all types'. If that was the intent, then the message is that when Jesus dies on the Cross, salvation will be expanded from just a few of the 'children of Israel' to the elect from all nations. Which is exactly what we see happened.

 

[Rockson]

I love that word "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). I love that it is not 'omniscience' (God knows everything) but more like 'Adam knew Eve and she bore him a son'. It is knowing people in a deeply personal way. God 'fore-loved' us! Gotta love that.

Yes so come Calvinists would argue. Others would contend there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

 

[TCassidy]

ALL MEN...Yeah clear as clear can be!

Yes. It is. When Christ was lifted up, onto the cross, His Gospel message goes out to all people. The Gospel message is universal. But only the elect believers will respond.

 

[TCassidy]

Yes so come Calvinists would argue. Others would contend there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

Except that is what it says and that is what it means.

 

[Rockson]

However, let's just accept your reading of the scripture as the correct one. Since Jesus said that preaching the Gospel will draw ALL MEN to Him, then we should expect a 100% conversion rate among those who hear us preach the Gospel. If even one person has no interest in being drawn to Jesus, then Jesus lied (or scripture is flawed and misquoted him).

And you've never heard the ole saying, "You can draw a horse to water but you can't make him drink?" Now you may laugh because of course that's not a scripture BUT the fact is Jesus does draw and does appeal to the hearts of men to come into relationship with God. When they reject him it causes him much sorrow, grief and tears.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! Luke 13:34

He was willing! That was God's will! Why shouldn't you think to speak otherwise is to speak contrary to the clear statement of scripture.