Calvinism's fatal flaw

[Frogman]

If you have interpreted the scriptures to mean something else, then the burden is upon you alone, and not those who do not agree with you. The vast majority of Christians (those who believe in Christ) do not agree with you!

Does this mean they agree with you; because if they do they too are not reading the Holy Scripture.

In your last post all you did was make my argument. How.

You stated that God viewed man as Dead. Then opened your next paragraph with the statement: Man is not dead.

Which is it you believe?

It matters not how many numbers agree with me. According to scripture the Prophets weren't well received either. I am not a politician; In the details of this is where God decides the effectiveness of His Word.

In another post you stated that neither we (Calvinists) nor the word of God had convinced you of who the elect were. Don't mind our arguments if you wish, but do heed to the word of God and don't make such sweeping remarks about it. It only shows a lack of respect for the only source of truth you, I or any other human has; As to your disagreement with me I care not and I suspect you care not if I agree with you. But do not make the Word of God of no effect.


God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

I also notice my children are sinners before they have accumulated a life experience equal to my own.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

The difference is that your children were procreated beings with roots in Adam and Eve who were created beings.

 

[Frogman]

The difference is that your children were procreated beings with roots in Adam and Eve who were created beings.

you have been hearing me. this is exactly what I have been trying to tell you. Adam was created in righteousness and even in this condition he chose to sin by his will.

The rest of mankind, Christ excluded, are born into this sinful condition.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

I'm in my sixth decade in years, born again in my early teens, and you've been trying to teach me something I've known and adhered to probably longer than you lived on earth? You did not succeed!

I have had 40 plus years of bombardment from the likes of Calvin and Armenius. But:

No, I am not Persuaded by or for Calvin
No, I am not persuaded by or for Armenius
No, I am not persuaded by or for Paul, or Peter, or James etc., but I learn great stuff from them.

I am persuaded by Jesus! and God's Holy Word.

 

[Frogman]

No, I am not persuaded by or for Paul, or Peter, or James etc., but I learn great stuff from them.

I am persuaded by Jesus! and God's Holy Word.

This is great Yelsew, but Paul, Peter, and James wrote the Word of God by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Wrong, they wrote a portion of God's Word, They are not the authority for the law, the prophets, etc., But they aid ones understanding of the law and the prophets.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
Wrong, they wrote a portion of God's Word, They are not the authority for the law, the prophets, etc., But they aid ones understanding of the law and the prophets.

But if their writings are contrary to your beliefs you throw it out.

These men were only able to write according to what Christ revealed to them; we are only able to understand their writings according to what Christ reveals to us. If we read the entire Bible, even though we memorize it, without the revelation through the Spirit, it is a dead letter.

Christ says the word he speaks is spirit and life John 6; natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit, he must have direction from the Spirit before he can receive; only then can even the writing of Peter, Paul and James aid our understanding. Otherwise we remain blown about by every wind of doctrine.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
Wrong, they wrote a portion of God's Word

You say it is a portion of God's Word but treat it as if it were man's word. That doesn't even make sense from a yelsewian perspective.

 

[Yelsew]

Why it certainly does make sense from any perspective.

Can you preach the Gospel message from the Book of Hosea or Ezra, or Malachi without support from any other text in the bible? No? Then those books are not valid, stand alone, to the Gospel.

Can you preach salvation from the book of Romans without support from any other text in the bible? Paul's quotes from other texts cannot be used? Neither can the synoptics!

I don't think you can because you are preaching hear say, that is, you have no first hand knowledge, no knowledge from eyewitness reports to rely on. You can only relay Paul's personal experiences with the Christ and with the other Apostles.

You cannot tell of the life and ministry or the Cross or the empty grace except as hear say. Neither can you relate the prophesies relating to the Christ that are found in other books of the bible.

Yes you can tell fanciful stories that seem to have credibility, and you can relate the edicts that Paul gave out, but you are still preaching hear say.

 

[Frogman]

The riches of the depth of the wisdom of God is that the Gospel can be preached from Gen. 1.1.

In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.

That which is heavenly first created, how do we think man is made into the image of God, of course the Son of God was brought forth in eternity past before any thing was ever created, of course all the world was created by He who stood as the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world; the image man is created in is that image which the Second person of the Holy Trinity would take upon himself, that which is heavenly is of the Father, is begotten of the Father, He and the Father are one; next is that which is earthly, created for the pleasure of the Father and the glory of His Son, who is the express image of his Father; The earthly is that which could by its own will fall and did; thus standing in need of a kinsman, a mediator who could take hold of man and of God and redeem His brethren; thus is needed a woman through which he will be brought into the world, this woman is typified by a nation of people known as Israel, this woman is a virgin, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, (Is. 9.6).

The Gospel can and has been preached from the Old Testament. Where did Paul and all the Apostles lean; they had not the New Testament to expound upon.

Greater than these is the author and finisher of our faith who on the Emmaus road began "...at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24.27

True I have not the ability to make it as elegant as our Lord must have made it, but it most certainly can be and has been done, in this as in all others though, man must rely on the Holy Spirit to bring such messages down to him, he (man) alone cannot get one up that will do justice to the Glory of God, from either Testament.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

Yelsew,

What portion of the Bible do you hold to be hearsay?

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Well you certainly dodged the question!

I know the Gospel message can be preached from the old testament, but I do not believe the Gospel message can be preached from the books that I included in my post without the support of other books of the bible. or other sources of literature.

Non of the bible is heresy, but the way is it used by many to prove their points is often heretical.

 

[Frogman]

Yelsew,

First, I meant, "hear-say" not heresy, that was my error for writing it as one word.

Next:

Can you preach the Gospel message from the Book of Hosea or Ezra , or Malachi without support from any other text in the bible? No? Then those books are not valid, stand alone, to the Gospel.

Can you preach salvation from the book of Romans without support from any other text in the bible? Paul's quotes from other texts cannot be used? Neither can the synoptics!

I also believe the Gospel can be preached from any one of these sources.

Jeshua the son of Jozadak is found in this portion of scripture.

Jeshua means--Jehovah is salvation.

Jozadak means--Jehovah is just.

A saved individual, called by God to preach the Gospel, under the power of the Holy Spirit could certainly preach the Gospel from these alone. This is taken from Ezra ch. 3.2 only one verse. out of ten chapters.

Hosea means--salvation.

Malachi means--the messenger of Jehovah.

Either of these books could supply many sermons with the Gospel as the message.

Now Romans: 1.16 alone is enough to preach the Gospel from; or 1.17 or any of the opening vss. such as vs. 3; 1; 2; any of this whole book as well could serve the man of God who is preaching not of his own power or message but that of God's for the time and place appointed.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[sturgman]

Pastor Yelsew of First Church of Yelsewian stated-
Can you preach the Gospel message from the Book of Hosea or Ezra, or Malachi?

Yes, Yes i can, and have done so many times. I can also use Noah, Jonah, Ruth, etc. etc.

The message of the cross goes back to the garden.

In Him,
sturgman

 

[Yelsew]

The book of Noah? How biblical would your sermon be?

 

[Frogman]

Yelsew,

You are right there is no book of "Noah" however, the Gospel can be preached from just "Noah" and has been done several times.

It is also interesting to note that the Bible records of Noah that 'he found grace in the sight of the Lord,' not that he found free-will in the sight of the Lord.

Have you ever wondered why there were no pegs placed in the side of the ark? and that there was only one window and that one above?

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
The book of Noah? How biblical would your sermon be?

It's a long shot, but I'm betting a sermon based on the story of Noah would be far more Biblical than a sermon about how free will is equivalent to grace, and therefore it is "by free will you are saved".

 

[sturgman]

I am not saying from the book of Noah, you asked if the gospel could be preached using the old testement, and the answer is yes. If you cannot see the gospel all over the old testement, then you are blind.

 

[Yelsew]

Sturgman, I am not blind, I have preached the gospel from many of the old testament books, but only in parallel with other references, never as the singular source reference.

Npetreley, when you learn that Grace, love, mercy, justice, etc. are attributes, and that an attribute is that which is true of one exhibiting it, you will then learn that what is true of one remains true of the one and is not something that is given by the one to another. An attribute is not a commodity that one can give to another, but is rather that by which the one with the attribute behaves. One who is said to have love, loves but does not give away love. One who is said to have Grace, behaves in accordance with that Grace. etc.

Free will is an attribute that God gave to man when God breathed life into the formed dust of the earth. Man behaves in accordance with his free will, choosing behavior that is in accordance with his will. Man also has grace, love, mercy, justice, and more. At any time, any given man may be behaving in accordance with one or more of his attributes. He is not, however, giving away his love, mercy, grace, justice, free will, etc. because they all remain true of the one having them.