Calvinist/Arminian Baptist Brethren Identify Yourselves!

[Hark]

Yes, you can. Salvation is not because of anything good in you. Period.

God knows all and sees all. And He saw no good thing in you.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

We are talking about men here in verse 19, right?

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Verse 20 is about why an unbeliever does not believe, right?

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Now is verse 21 talking about why a believer believes or not? Are his deeds manifested as one that doeth truth but is wrought by God is why he is coming to the Light?

I agree that thee is no good thing in us; but God can know whom would receive Him from those that care not to. It is not a conscious effort since we are lost & blind when we were in darkness, and so this is all on the Father, knowing all things of who would receive Him from those that care not to so as to know whom to reveal His Son to so we can believe in Him.

 

[Hark]

I fail to see the problem. A lot of Christians have prayed that God would send helpers into the field. Why do you find that so extraordinary?

You see them as Christians in Macedonia praying to God to send His disciples to Macedonia to preach the gospel to them? I don't.

Still does not explain why the disciples were forbidden to go to Asia or Bithynia when they had been commanded to preach the gospel to all nations.

 

[TCassidy]

You see them as Christians in Macedonia praying to God to send His disciples to Macedonia to preach the gospel to them? I don't.

No. I see him, the single person seen in the vision, being a Christian praying that God would send the disciples to Macedonia to preach to the lost.

What warrant do you have to assume the person in prayer was lost?

Still does not explain why the disciples were forbidden to go to Asia or Bithynia when they had been commanded to preach the gospel to all nations.

Why does God command missionaries to go to Africa instead of Asia? God sends His disciples wherever He wants to send them. And prevents them from going wherever He doesn't want them to go.

 

[Hark]

No. I see him, the single person seen in the vision, being a Christian praying that God would send the disciples to Macedonia to preach to the lost.

What warrant do you have to assume the person in prayer was lost?

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

That was the vision of a man praying that they go to Macedonia.

But when they got there, it was a woman that was praying that had attended unto the things spoken of Paul but was still lost until she heard them preach the gospel and opened her heart.

Acts 16:11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days. 13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. 14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. 15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

So she was lost until they had preached the gospel unto her.

Why does God command missionaries to go to Africa instead of Asia? God sends His disciples wherever He wants to send them. And prevents them from going wherever He doesn't want them to go.

How is that not speaking to foreknowledge of who will receive the Good News from those that would not?

 

[tyndale1946]

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

That was the vision of a man praying that they go to Macedonia.

But when they got there, it was a woman that was praying that had attended unto the things spoken of Paul but was still lost until she heard them preach the gospel and opened her heart.

Acts 16:11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days. 13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. 14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. 15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

So she was lost until they had preached the gospel unto her.

How is that not speaking to foreknowledge of who will receive the Good News from those that would not?

So was Lydia lost eternally?... Brother Glen

 

[TCassidy]

So she was lost until they had preached the gospel unto her.

Yes, and it seems obvious that the vision was of a man and she was a women she is not the one in the vision.

Again I ask, what warrant do you have to say the praying man in the vision was lost?

 

[Hark]

So was Lydia lost eternally?... Brother Glen

I believe she "was" until she had heard the disciples preaching the gospel when the Lord opened her heart to believe and be baptized in His name after that.

 

[Hark]

Yes, and it seems obvious that the vision was of a man and she was a women she is not the one in the vision.

Again I ask, what warrant do you have to say the praying man in the vision was lost?

Why would a saved believer ask for help to preach the gospel to them if he already knows it?

Of course, being a vision, I believe the man was symbolic, and not an actual man in real life praying.

 

[Bob Hope]

There is member on the Other Christians Discussion Forum by the handle Hark that says he has no access to asking questions to Baptist... I know being a Primitive Baptist that there are other Baptist brethren (sisters included) on here who are Baptist from both sides and a few in between... I don't think there are any on here that would not stand up for their Biblical Christian Baptist belief... There are some lively debates down here and as the saying goes if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen... You can be as detailed as you want... That being said... Calvinist/Arminian Baptist Brethren Identify Yourselves!... I just did!... If you are not Baptist we want to know who you are too... Brother Glen

We chose to be saved. One could argue that it is God that brought our minds into the light and gave us a revelation. But to assume that puts Gods character into question. For those of us who are exercising faith of our free will, we have elected to follow in obedience. We are required to maintain that obedience until the end comes. We will be judged according to wether or not our claimed faith was truly in Christ or if it was simply lip service by our works. Those without works, ie white robes, will be found wanting. This is as simple as it gets. This is why even the children that want to see Christ were told that such is the kingdom of Heaven. Children believe and obey. There is no magic believe-o-meter up in Heaven that rates your level of faith. You either obey or disobey. It's as easy as that.

 

[TCassidy]

Why would a saved believer ask for help to preach the gospel to them if he already knows it?

So can one preacher reach all of the US? Or does he pray for workers for the harvest?

 

[Hark]

So can one preacher reach all of the US? Or does he pray for workers for the harvest?

I don't believe that was what the man in the vision was about in my opinion.

 

[TCassidy]

I don't believe that was what the man in the vision was about in my opinion.

The bible tells us what it was about. "Come over into Macedonia, and help us." You are aware, are you not, that Macedonia was an entire country?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I believe in Unlimited or Universal Atonement as opposed to Limited Atonement for the Elect.

I believe in Conditional Election based on repentance and faith in Christ.

I believe is Sufficient Grace as opposed to Irresistible in that I believe are able to repent and believe the Gospel.

 

[Hark]

The bible tells us what it was about. "Come over into Macedonia, and help us." You are aware, are you not, that Macedonia was an entire country?

Yes. I did quote the reference where the disciples had to travel to get there, and what city in Macedonia they had gone to.

 

[Hark]

I believe in Unlimited or Universal Atonement as opposed to Limited Atonement for the Elect.

I believe in Conditional Election based on repentance and faith in Christ.

I believe is Sufficient Grace as opposed to Irresistible in that I believe are able to repent and believe the Gospel.

Can you quote a Bible verse for each of those statements?

 

[TCassidy]

Yes. I did quote the reference where the disciples had to travel to get there, and what city in Macedonia they had gone to.

So you understand there was one person asking for help to reach an entire country? Why does that strike you as improbable?

 

[Hark]

So you understand there was one person asking for help to reach an entire country? Why does that strike you as improbable?

Because it is just a vision. Images are used for symbolism just like images are in dreams as given from the Lord.

 

[TCassidy]

Because it is just a vision.

So, if the vision did not mean what it said, what did it mean? And how do you know it means something other than what it said?

 

[Hark]

So, if the vision did not mean what it said, what did it mean? And how do you know it means something other than what it said?

The fact that the first conversion recorded was a woman, not a man.

 

[Iconoclast]

We chose to be saved. One could argue that it is God that brought our minds into the light and gave us a revelation. But to assume that puts Gods character into question. For those of us who are exercising faith of our free will, we have elected to follow in obedience. We are required to maintain that obedience until the end comes. We will be judged according to wether or not our claimed faith was truly in Christ or if it was simply lip service by our works. Those without works, ie white robes, will be found wanting. This is as simple as it gets. This is why even the children that want to see Christ were told that such is the kingdom of Heaven. Children believe and obey. There is no magic believe-o-meter up in Heaven that rates your level of faith. You either obey or disobey. It's as easy as that.

You describe a gospel of works which cannot save....it is no gospel at all;
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.