Calvinist Church Dumps Free Will Offerings

[prophecynut]

Pastor Larry's quote:

All men are confronted with the choice to accept Christ or reject Him.

This kind of statement contradicts your position on predestination and is the kind of thinking tipical of Helen, Mark Natters, Han Sola and others.

Seeking the Lord is always used in the context of the elect, whether the chosen tribes of Israel, those chosen in Christ or the remnant of Jews and Gentiles that inherit the kingdom in the Millennium.

Man's sinful nature prevents him from seeking Jesus Christ as Lord, only those regenerated by the Holy Spirit have been given the gift to seek him.

Let me know if you locate anyone not chosen in the Bible seeking the Lord.

 

[Pastor Larry]

HOw that does that contradict my position? The Bible says that all men are commanded to believe, not just the elect. Sinful man will not seek him until God draws him. And when God draws him he will seek God and will repent.

The confrontation with teh choice is irrespective of election.

I think you are reading more into my statement than what is there.

 

[prophecynut]

Where does it say all men are commanded?

Where does is say the non elect seek God?

God commands the winds and water and they obey him.

God commands all to believe yet only a few become the elect, my, my what a feeble God we serve.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Where does it say all men are commanded?

IT is a universal command in Mark 1 and Acts 17, among other places.

Where does is say the non elect seek God?

I don't know. I am not claiming that the non-elect do seek God. Remember what I said ... You are reading more into my statement then what is there. One does have not to "seek God" to be confronted with the choice.

God commands all to believe yet only a few become the elect, my, my what a feeble God we serve.

Well first, a few do not "become" the elect. They have been the elect from eternity past. But how is that feeble?

 

[prophecynut]

IT is a universal command in Mark 1 and Acts 17, among other places

Agree, it is a universal or general command and not specialized or specific command.

confronted with the choice.

"Choice" is something chosen by a person based on his desires to obtain it. Rejection of the gospel is not due to a person's ability to make the right decision, rather his sinful nature makes it impossible to know Christ without first being regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

They have been the elect from eternity past. But how is that feeble?

Agree, should of used "are" instead of "become."

To all who believe have internal life.
His atoning work on the cross is for all people.
God commands all to believe.

All the above are understood by some to mean universal salvation. Obviously this is not true as you agree. Universalism makes God feeble in that he is unable to save everyone according to his will.

I look at God's commands as something that will be acomplished. If he decrees something to happen, he will not fail. If he commands all to believe and does not succeed in everyone believing then he is a feeble God. Maybe a better term would be for him to invite all to believe (Mt. 22:14).

A general command and a personal invitation.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Agree, it is a universal or general command and not specialized or specific command.

Exactly.

"Choice" is something chosen by a person based on his desires to obtain it. Rejection of the gospel is not due to a person's ability to make the right decision, rather his sinful nature makes it impossible to know Christ without first being regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Exactly.

To all who believe have internal life.
His atoning work on the cross is for all people.
God commands all to believe.

All the above are understood by some to mean universal salvation. Obviously this is not true as you agree. Universalism makes God feeble in that he is unable to save everyone according to his will.

Yep.

So far, you haven't differed with me on anything. What was your point?

I look at God's commands as something that will be acomplished. If he decrees something to happen, he will not fail. If he commands all to believe and does not succeed in everyone believing then he is a feeble God. Maybe a better term would be for him to invite all to believe (Mt. 22:14).

A command is not a decree. The 10 Commandments aren't decrees. They have been broken many times. That doesn't mean God is feeble. It means that man is a sinner. And calling it an invitation doesn't change it. It is a command.

However, you are right that what God decrees will not fail.

 

[prophecynut]

A command is not a decree is not an invitation.

Invite - a request to follow Christ.

Command - to direct with authority; ordered to follow Christ.

Decree - an oridence or edict from one of authority demanding another to follow Christ.

Those invited but not chosen do not receive eternal life.

Those predestine for eternal life before the foundation of the earth are called, justified and glorified (Rom. 8:30); they never received an invitation or are commanded to follow Christ, instead they are drawned to Christ by God.

Hebrews were specifically commanded by God to obey the 10 Commandments.

The lost are invited but not commanded by God to follow Christ.

Why command someone to follow Christ when there's absolutely no chance they will be chosen?

 

[2BHizown]

quote:Why command someone to follow Christ when there's absolutely no chance they will be chosen?

How on earth do you know that? When you talk with someone that shows interest in the gospel then how can you know they have no chance? Horrible thought!! We were commanded to share the gospel with every creature! We follow Christs commands! Even Paul says that we may plant, another may water but God gives the increase! Only He knows who His own are! They arent marked in any way so we urge them to repent and ask God for mercy. We are the means He uses to bring His own to Himself. We are His ambassadors! We plead with everyone to be reconciled to God! He is our hope, our only hope of eternal life!
Blessings and prayers,

 

[prophecynut]

When you talk with someone that shows interest in the gospel

This is God drawing the person to Christ.

We were commanded to share the gospel with every creature!

Correct, as believers in Christ we are to acknowledge Christ before others. God does not command non believers to follow Christ, he draws them. He commands us to spread the gospel so that the elect will hear the gospel and be drawn to the Lord.