I’m not a Calvinist….just don’t like you
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Austin, it is simply that their a priori presupposition does not include a sovereign God. In that, I can only come to one conclusion -- they are yet in rebellion against holy God. We see a similar a priori presupposition in the case of atheistic naturalists concerning creation -- it just cannot be, for there is no First Cause that supernaturally spoke the cosmos into being by fiat, ex nihilo. Here, their presupposition is that God ALWAYS gives humans the final word in their own fate -- and in a sense He does, for left to our own devices, we will ALWAYS choose to spend eternity in hell! It is into that presupposition that God breaks, giving us (John 3:16-20) LIFE and more so, graciously and mercifully, ABUNDANT life!
FYI…I do know I have been saved…what’s more, I’m not rebellious against my Sovereign Lord!
LOL…neither am I! These guys liberally throw that name around as if it’s a pejorative.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Now why would you not like me? You do not even know me in the least bit. Now if you had said you did not like me pointing out your errors that would be different. But the truth does have a way of offending people.
That’s funny, see I do know you via your posts and commentary. By contrast I could indicate who on here you should learn from however you wouldn’t do that either sooo
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
KY do you just throw these comments out there and hope no one will think them through to the logical end?
If only the "elect, regenerate" have the ability to freely choose then that means that all the others did not have the free ability so the fact they are in hell is not their doing but rather Gods. He, under your warped view, has chosen to condemn the vast majority to hell not because of what they did or did not do but only because He did not decide to pick them. So much for your god being loving.
But then again you have to hope that you are actually one of those "elect or regenerate" ones. But you can never really know can you. It may all just be wishful thinking on your part.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That’s funny, see I do know you via your posts and commentary. By contrast I could indicate who on here you should learn from however you wouldn’t do that either sooo
Oh there are some on BB that I think do have it together but I doubt that it would be anyone that you would recommend.
You either know something or you don’t and apparently you don’t know certainty. Is that how you live your life? Don’t answer that, I already know.
Commenting on 2nd paragraph;
Sorry that does not work. Romans 5 is not in the context of Calvinists being ungodly, it is in the context of the whole world being ungodly. The whole world has been identified as those born into the family of Adam. They are all ungodly and they are the ones who die because of it. The point is that the remedy for death is in Jesus Christ and is as broad as the need. It is dishonest and a manipulation of the text to claim that only the Calvinists are in view in these chapters. Jesus Christ is in no way less than Adam. "In Adam all die, in Christ all shall be made alive, the scriptures says."
This goes to my point that Calvinists and people like yourself do not believe the words of the scriptures. You are concerned with theology with out scriptural context. You are not interested in the timing of these statements, why they are given in the first epistle of Paul in the canon, that it introduces the gospel of God in the very first verse and this new work of God to the whole wide world through the ministry of Paul as the apostle to the gentiles, the people group who have been to this time without a promise, without Christ, without God, and without an acceptable blood sacrifice that would cover their sins from a holy and righteous God.. The gospel of God is the good news, glad tidings of God. There could not have been good news to the world of God's efforts to provide salvation without the gospel of Christ, which is defined as his death, burial, and resurrection as payment the sins of the whole world. This is the theme of Romans if not the theme of the New Testament. Now, anyone may repent of their sins and come to God through Jesus Christ and he will justify them because he was satisfied with the offering of Jesus Christ and his blood takes away all sin of the world. This is good news to all who hear it whether they receive it or not.
This is the gospel of God. What you and Calvinists preach is not the gospel of God. The gospel of God is denied by limited atonement no matter what else you think about the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Ro 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Ro 16:25 Now to him (God the Father) that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
The gospel that Paul calls "my gospel" is defined as the good news to the world, to whom he was sent, that God can and will save anyone and everyone who will come to him through Jesus Christ.
I cannot express to you how terrible a doctrine limited atonement is. The door of faith is thrown wide open to the world.
Ac 14:27 And when they (Paul & Barnabas) were come (to Antioch from their first missionary campaign), and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he (God the Father) had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
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"Ever and anon the non-Cal cries, Why doth He still find fault?" - Aaron
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Ro 9
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I, unlike you, do not make rash judgements.But that does seem to be the way you live yours.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
And ever and anon this verse is used to shore up a false understanding of your errant view.
Lol, it has your entire complaint pegged, O man.
I remind everyone that God was obliged to save the Jews because he promised them he would. However he was not obligated by a promise to save anyone else God would still be just if he had only saved the Jews and not saved the gentiles. But he did out of kindness and mercy and because he is a gracious God open the door of faith to undeserving gentiles so all may go in and be saved from their sins. The door of faith is open now for everyone and anyone but it will not always be open. Do not be deceived by religion. Get in while you can. Paul wrote the following words to a church of professing believers in Christ and by extension to us today. The atonement for Adam's race made by Jesus Christ is a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Here is another passage I like. It is about God the Father and lets us know we must believe in God the Father because it is his grace towards us that Jesus Christ was sent. He is called our Saviour in this passage.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he (God our Saviour) saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Here is another passage I like. It is about God the Father and lets us know we must believe in God the Father because it is his grace towards us that Jesus Christ was sent. He is called our Saviour in this passage.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he (God our Saviour) saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Will you continue to follow a man-made theology that come from pagan roots? The foundation is bad so the result is bad. I am just the messenger that is pointing you to the truth, the scriptures.
If one were once dead to God, with Total Inability to respond to God, THEN,
After salvation, once must be dead to sin, with Total Inability to respond to it.
Romans 6:2 asks the question, "How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?"
The implied answer is, "We cannot." "Why?" Because we are dead to sin, thus our Total Inability".
After salvation, once must be dead to sin, with Total Inability to respond to it.
Romans 6:2 asks the question, "How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?"
The implied answer is, "We cannot." "Why?" Because we are dead to sin, thus our Total Inability".
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
The remedy is as broad as the need. Anyone who comes to Christ will be saved. Which means anyone who comes to Christ is one that is covered by the atoning work of Christ. My paragraph 2 was the explanation a high-Calvinist would give and it is not in any way excluding anyone who wants to come to Christ. As for myself, I am not a high-Calvinist. I believe, like many Calvinists, and even Calvin, that Christ's atonement is sufficient for everyone that ever ends up coming to Christ. Be careful with your statements. If I were to take your statement above, that in Christ al shall be made alive, and say that you were teaching that all will be saved you would be offended and rightfully so. But you go ahead and blast away with your second paragraph. I admit from seeing how most of the Calvinists or whatever some of these guys call themselves post you are probably justified in what you say but for the record, that's not how all Calvinists believe.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is a false teaching.
Genesis 12:2-3, ". . . And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. . . ."
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
So what do you do with verse 5? It seems that the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit are things we are passive in. How do you wash yourself and renew yourself. And if you say believe just remember that the Calvinist theologians say the exact same thing. Now a Calvinist will without apology, put the renewing of the Holy Spirit and at least the beginning of regeneration first, before you believe and they do not apologize for that. But is that really a reason to hate the doctrine of all the great preachers from the 1550's to now? Do you not at least agree that regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit are of the Holy Spirit and not you? So the only real dispute is the order.
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