Calvinist Pastor Turns from Calvinism After 20 Years

[Winman]

I'm not ready to assign him there. I know he's firmly established in a position I disagree with, but a valid point still stands.

I've said before - if God is a sadist, so what? Or if God is subservient to man, so what?

The issue should never be how it makes us feel, or whether we like the notion. The issue of utmost importance is what do the scriptures say?

He made the world and everything in it, not us. And His word is truth, not ours. If His word clashes with our thinking, then our thinking needs to change

I don't know if I agree with you. I have read many a Calvinist say they were revolted at the doctrine of Calvinism when they first heard it, if offended their idea of a loving God. But teachers can manipulate scripture to make it appear God is the author of sin.

For example, Hyper-Calvinists will often quote Isa 45:7

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

You could take this scripture and use it to teach that God is the author of evil, in fact, I have seen it done. I have seen Hypers say that the devil is simply God's servant, carrying out those evil things God ordains.

Almost anyone would be offended by teaching like this, but a clever teacher could say, "Look, what does the scripture say? Does it say God creates evil?"

You can manipulate scripture, but if something doesn't sound or feel right, you better investigate a little more before you fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

God wrote the law on our heart and gave us a conscience for a reason.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Not a Calvinist here, but I think his point was that you can't build an argument on what 1 guy did somewhere.

Matt, I salute your fair assessment.

 

[pinoybaptist]

It's an illustration of what I've said sometime many posts ago somewhere and faithfully opposed by some antis here. One can convert from one truth to a lie or vice-versa, from one principle to another, one doctrine or creed, soterioloy or theology to another, doesn't necessarily define your eternal relationship to the Savior.

 

[evangelist6589]

The third thing that set me on the course to reject RT was the thing that had led me into it – Scripture itself. As a pastor I preached through books of the Bible verse by verse. Occasionally I would encounter a common Calvinistic proof text and realize that it did not necessarily say what I had thought it said. John 3 does not necessarily teach that regeneration precedes faith; John 10 does not necessarily teach that Jesus died only for the elect; Eph 1 does not necessarily teach that God ordained whatever happens; 1 Pet 1 does not necessarily teach that God elected individuals for salvation – unconditionally, effectually, exclusively. Once again, these discoveries did not shake my confidence in RT. There were too many passages that clearly taught it; I considered Romans 9 impregnable to Arminian assault. But I realized that the quantity of verses used to support my view did not matter if, upon closer scrutiny, they could not bear the weight that we Calvinists were putting on them on a case-by-case basis.


Complete article here:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/cal...-20-years-as-a-calvinist-and-intensive-study/

I read from both sides and listen to podcasts from both sides. I have Chosen But Free, as well as the Potters Freedom, What is Reformed Theology to Free Grace Soteriology. I lean Calvinist, but I am not Reformed and reject Covenant theology. In Heaven God will sort it all out, so for the moment we can work together.

 

[evangelist6589]

Hmmm...OK, how many guys would it take?

Also, it seems odd that someone's personal testimony would carry little weight, especially someone that was steeped in Reformed theology. Would you like your personal testimony to be rejected so quickly and thoroughly with scarcely an examination of it?

You are wrong... Would you reject Christianity because some lunatic claimed christianity and shot his wife?

 

[evangelist6589]

I can find 1 guy somewhere that had done just about anything.

No, I don't expect anyone to change their mind on something based upon just my single experience.

The same to you. Just because you do not like tracts on cars does not mean everyone thinks the same.

 

[evangelist6589]

Of course not Winman.....need you even ask?

Why respond to him? I have him on ignore and encourage others to do the same. WinMan comes to this board to air his opinions and launch his crusade against Calvinism.

 

[kyredneck]

Aaron, I love you man... woop dee doo... lol...

 

[webdog]

I would bet that for every person who turns from Calvinism, there is someone who turns to it.

As for personal testimonies, too much importance can be placed on individual experience. Word of Faith types are a good example of what I mean.

You would lose that bet given the number of cal's compared to non.

 

[matt wade]

The same to you. Just because you do not like tracts on cars does not mean everyone thinks the same.

You are a funny guy. Could you recommend some good books on placing tracts on cars? Please don't violate your book buying freeze to get any new ones. Recommending one from your personal collection would be great.

 

[evangelist6589]

You are a funny guy. Could you recommend some good books on placing tracts on cars? Please don't violate your book buying freeze to get any new ones. Recommending one from your personal collection would be great.

An Arminian based book called One Thing You Cant do in Heaven by Mark Cahill. This man has a PASSION for souls. Good read.

He encourages people to place tracts in beer cases in the local grocery store.

PS- Actually I have enough evangelism books and do not need anymore. I have a number of both Arminian and Calvinist books on the topic.

 

[matt wade]

An Arminian based book called One Thing You Cant do in Heaven by Mark Cahill. This man has a PASSION for souls. Good read.

He encourages people to place tracts in beer cases in the local grocery store.

It's disappointing that you can't recommend a book that talks specifically about placing tracts on cars. I would really like to be educated on this subject by a great Christian Author.

 

[Revmitchell]

I wasn't talking about anyone changing their mind, I was talking about not even giving your testimony any consideration. Aaron obviously didn't read the article, he just dismissed it out of hand.

Do you know how many times reformed folks on this board have told us their story of how they once converted from "arminianism" to "calvinism"?


It certainly counted then.

 

[JonC]

An Arminian based book called One Thing You Cant do in Heaven by Mark Cahill. This man has a PASSION for souls. Good read.

He encourages people to place tracts in beer cases in the local grocery store.

PS- Actually I have enough evangelism books and do not need anymore. I have a number of both Arminian and Calvinist books on the topic.

Personally, I would shy away from both Arminian and Calvinistic based books on evangelism. I have several books on the subject by various authors (e.g., Dave Earley, John MacArthur)...and the only one that I can think of only one I own that could misinterpreted as being "based" on Calvinism (by J.I. Packer). When we start categorizing and replacing the Bible as our foundation with our own theological persuasions then error is shortly to follow.

I do not know, because I can not speak for the man, but this type of categorization is what I thought of when you and Don debated labeling Christians. Why the divide? Just offer varying views on evangelism and go from there.

 

[Winman]

An Arminian based book called One Thing You Cant do in Heaven by Mark Cahill. This man has a PASSION for souls. Good read.

He encourages people to place tracts in beer cases in the local grocery store.

PS- Actually I have enough evangelism books and do not need anymore. I have a number of both Arminian and Calvinist books on the topic.

Stuffing tracts inside cases of beer at the grocery store? What could go wrong?



Just substitute the word "beer" for "soup" and you will have John's headline.

Great idea John.

 

[quantumfaith]

Why respond to him? I have him on ignore and encourage others to do the same. WinMan comes to this board to air his opinions and launch his crusade against Calvinism.

Well, I appreciate Winmans contribution to discussions, and I think you may have missed the point.

 

[evangelist6589]

Personally, I would shy away from both Arminian and Calvinistic based books on evangelism. I have several books on the subject by various authors (e.g., Dave Earley, John MacArthur)...and the only one that I can think of only one I own that could misinterpreted as being "based" on Calvinism (by J.I. Packer). When we start categorizing and replacing the Bible as our foundation with our own theological persuasions then error is shortly to follow.

I do not know, because I can not speak for the man, but this type of categorization is what I thought of when you and Don debated labeling Christians. Why the divide? Just offer varying views on evangelism and go from there.

The POINT is that Mark's book is filled with stories and excellent wisdom on doing personal evangelism and he gave me many ideas, including placing tracts on cars. The book has blessed many (just read the amazon reviews). You disagree and yet have not read the book.

 

[evangelist6589]

It's disappointing that you can't recommend a book that talks specifically about placing tracts on cars. I would really like to be educated on this subject by a great Christian Author.

Go buy the book or I can have one sent out to you, just PM me your address. The POINT of the book is to motivate you to do evangelism, but that may be too much given the state of your heart towards evangelism.

 

[InTheLight]

You are wrong... Would you reject Christianity because some lunatic claimed christianity and shot his wife?

I sure hope that is not YOUR testimony!

I was specifically asking about Matt's testimony (or generically asking any reader of this thread--Would you like it if someone totally dismissed your testimony because you were only one man?)

 

[InTheLight]

Do you know how many times reformed folks on this board have told us their story of how they once converted from "arminianism" to "calvinism"?


It certainly counted then.

You are correct sir!