Calvinist Pastor Turns from Calvinism After 20 Years

[righteousdude2]

In my heart of hearts ....

.....I am just blessed to see he hasn't turned away from God. A change in doctrine at a period in one's life is not unusual!

The man is still saved, and that is the big news to me!

With all the things he could have turned to, or away from, at least he didn't give up the pulpit for a confessional booth. Or, moved to Salt Lake and put on the funny underwear, while taking on several sister wives!

To me, and I expect to hear a few large gasps right now .... but to me, so what if he let Calvinism, he didn't leave the Lord, just a view that many don't agree with, but learn to live with!

 

[JonC]

The POINT is that Mark's book is filled with stories and excellent wisdom on doing personal evangelism and he gave me many ideas, including placing tracts on cars. The book has blessed many (just read the amazon reviews). You disagree and yet have not read the book.

Sometimes our assumptions make us look foolish...my recommendation is to avoid assuming. I have no problem with his book, I said noting in terms of disagreeing with Cahill, and I have read his book. I think that you did not even bother to read my post before your reply (not an assumption - giving you the benefit of the doubt).

 

[Aaron]

I see that you responded in less than 3 minutes to an extensive article that could not be read in that amount of time.

As if it would say anything I hadn't read or heard before. :sleep:

 

[Yeshua1]

Would say that he was steeped in presby reformed theology, which is not the same as reformed baptist, nor calvinistic baptist either...

 

[Dr. Bob]

Moved to [duh] CALVINISM Forum.

What is so difficult for people to see that if you're going to talk about Calvinism or semi-pelagianism, do it HERE, not on the General forums.

Paul called the people of Crete "slow-bellies". I will start giving infractions for people who KNOW BETTER and still choose to defy the BB rules.

 

[convicted1]

Someone's got their "big boy" pants on I see...

 

[JamesL]

people who KNOW BETTER and still choose to defy the BB rules.

Ahh, but the question is - do they freely choose to defy, or are they simply choosing in accordance with Divine Foreknowledge, or is their will altogether captive to where it was not their choice at all?

 

[InTheLight]

Ahh, but the question is - do they freely choose to defy, or are they simply choosing in accordance with Divine Foreknowledge, or is their will altogether captive to where it was not their choice at all?

Nailed it. I was predestined to post it in the General Forum. Why? I don't know. It's a mystery. :laugh:

[Dr. Bob: It won't happen again.]

 

[Yeshua1]

Ahh, but the question is - do they freely choose to defy, or are they simply choosing in accordance with Divine Foreknowledge, or is their will altogether captive to where it was not their choice at all?

They chose to freely post, based upon the will of God that they would post there.

 

[MB]

The OP. describes the truth that of course Calvinist will ridicule. I'm just a layman and in my opinion what you have described here is what is wrong with Calvinist thinking. The Bible is a text that has to be studied as a whole. We can make any book say anything we want it to one sentence at a time. One from the front and then one from the back.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

The OP. describes the truth that of course Calvinist will ridicule. I'm just a layman and in my opinion what you have described here is what is wrong with Calvinist thinking. The Bible is a text that has to be studied as a whole. We can make any book say anything we want it to one sentence at a time. One from the front and then one from the back.
MB

Think that ther basic belief of calvinism that seems to get some in an uproar is that as sinners, we cannot come to God in order to get saved even, that we are dependent upon him even for that!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

.....I am just blessed to see he hasn't turned away from God. A change in doctrine at a period in one's life is not unusual!

The man is still saved, and that is the big news to me!

With all the things he could have turned to, or away from, at least he didn't give up the pulpit for a confessional booth. Or, moved to Salt Lake and put on the funny underwear, while taking on several sister wives!

To me, and I expect to hear a few large gasps right now .... but to me, so what if he let Calvinism, he didn't leave the Lord, just a view that many don't agree with, but learn to live with!

Yea....he isn't an aethiest.

 

[MB]

Think that ther basic belief of calvinism that seems to get some in an uproar is that as sinners, we cannot come to God in order to get saved even, that we are dependent upon him even for that!

That isn't so. All men are drawn to the Lord, because He was lifted up (JN, 12:32). If all men are drawn all men can come to Christ. Just because most won't come doesn't mean they can't.

(Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. )

Sinners can come to Him if they are drawn. Jn. 12 :32 says all men are drawn. Men are not prevented from coming to Him.
To understand scripture we have to study it as a whole. we can't just leave out what we may not agree with.
MB

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The third thing that set me on the course to reject RT was the thing that had led me into it – Scripture itself. As a pastor I preached through books of the Bible verse by verse. Occasionally I would encounter a common Calvinistic proof text and realize that it did not necessarily say what I had thought it said. John 3 does not necessarily teach that regeneration precedes faith; John 10 does not necessarily teach that Jesus died only for the elect; Eph 1 does not necessarily teach that God ordained whatever happens; 1 Pet 1 does not necessarily teach that God elected individuals for salvation – unconditionally, effectually, exclusively. Once again, these discoveries did not shake my confidence in RT. There were too many passages that clearly taught it; I considered Romans 9 impregnable to Arminian assault. But I realized that the quantity of verses used to support my view did not matter if, upon closer scrutiny, they could not bear the weight that we Calvinists were putting on them on a case-by-case basis.


Complete article here:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/cal...-20-years-as-a-calvinist-and-intensive-study/

Swell. Still doesn't change the fact that Arminianism and the Finnyism and synergism that accompanies it is Unbiblical.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Hmmm...OK, how many guys would it take?

Also, it seems odd that someone's personal testimony would carry little weight, especially someone that was steeped in Reformed theology. Would you like your personal testimony to be rejected so quickly and thoroughly with scarcely an examination of it?

If somebody based their doctrine on my testimony, I'd be the first one to correct them and tell them to base their doctrine on God's Word, not my words.

 

[Yeshua1]

Swell. Still doesn't change the fact that Arminianism and the Finnyism and synergism that accompanies it is Unbiblical.

Would say that a classic/evangelical Arminian would be much closer to the truth that someone following Finney theology though!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Would say that a classic/evangelical Arminian would be much closer to the truth that someone following Finney theology though!

Still just as wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Still just as wrong.

How so?
As arminians, unlike those holding to Finney views, do not disregard the Fall. nor hold that we can come to Christ apart from the working of the Holy Spirit, correct?

 

[Rippon]

All men are drawn to the Lord, because He was lifted up (JN, 12:32). If all men are drawn all men can come to Christ. Just because most won't come doesn't mean they can't.

You are so wrong on so many levels.

What you need to do is look at my reponse to winman on this.

(Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. )

Sinners can come to Him if they are drawn.

Yes indeed.

Jn. 12 :32 says all men are drawn.

Your translation may say that but "men" or rather the equivalent is not in the original. But if you think that all are drawn to Christ, answer these questions. Jesus was speaking of the near future when he would die on the cross. How were those who had died before Jesus --residents of Hell supposed to be drawn? How were/are those who have never even heard of Christ or the Gospel drawn?

Men are not prevented from coming to Him.

Well, people are prevented because of their sin. It blinds them and they have a hatred for God. But the Scripture does say that those who come to Him He will never drive away.

To understand scripture we have to study it as a whole. we can't just leave out what we may not agree with.

Very true. Follow through with that idea MB.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are so wrong on so many levels.

What you need to do is look at my reponse to winman on this.


Yes indeed.

Your translation may say that but "men" or rather the equivalent is not in the original. But if you think that all are drawn to Christ, answer these questions. Jesus was speaking of the near future when he would die on the cross. How were those who had died before Jesus --residents of Hell supposed to be drawn? How were/are those who have never even heard of Christ or the Gospel drawn?

Well, people are prevented because of their sin. It blinds them and they have a hatred for God. But the Scripture does say that those who come to Him He will never drive away.

Very true. Follow through with that idea MB.

19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved.
John 3:19-20 Asv

That is the verdict of all those found in Adam... before God brings them to faith in Christ...