Calvinist preachers, teachers, theologians

This fold=Jews
Other sheep=Gentiles

 

Whats the difference? Did I not make the point that "world" means Jews & Gentiles? The point is that those gentiles were called sheep before they were saved! What of the goats? Did Christ lay down his life for the goats? Was the kingdom prepared for goats? Or sheep? Do any of Christ's sheep go to the fire?

 

The difference in what you are saying and what the Scriptures say is:

-You are saying there are specific sheep in mind
-The Scriptures only allude to groups

 

That is rubbish. The same context identifies them as given to Christ by the Father. Are all men given to Christ by the Father?

 

If I believed what Calvinist do they go to the fire. Don't think you want to go there.

 

He said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me. Is Jesus God?

 

Sure Bob. Make some sense next time. So you believe all men are Christ's sheep? That's rich.

 

Sure Bob. I guess you can find where all men have come to him as well? Look close at John 6:44. Do you find any rejection in the drawing he is talking about? When you do, then you have a argument. Until, your "all men" simply means Jews & Gentiles.

 

You got a smart mouth.
They are all His until they sin or come to the age of accountability.

So, the way you are saying it is that all jews and gentiles are His.

 

No. I am saying people from both sides come to Christ in the New Covenant. Where as in the Old, the Jew was primarily dealt with by God. Christ's sheep consist of both Jew and Gentile. That is the thrust of the Scripture.
As to the smart mouth, I just like to see you get going.

 

You talk out of both sides of your mouth first you say the whole world means the Jews and Gentiles and not you saying the ones who come to Christ.
What do you believe?

 

Cant you see what I am saying? I think you can.

In case not. Here it is. The middle wall of partition between Jew & Gentile has been broken down by Christ. Some from both Jew's and Gentiles will be saved. All of these are Christ's sheep. When Christ uses the word world in John 3:16, "all men" "whosoever" etc. He is making it clear that the plan includes Gentiles as well as Jews. But nowhere in the whole of Scripture are you going to find a thimble of evidence to support the idea that any but those God purposed to save are given to Christ by the Father & called his sheep in the NT.

 

Well Bob. I'll leave you to give last rights to this thread or take up the debate with others. I have to get up early.

 

This is what you said, not me. Now you are saying some of them.:BangHead:

 

Quick answer... No, not unless you believe all men are saved.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

You mean to tell me that you thought I meant all Gentiles & all Jew's. OK. Night.

 

Why, you hit the nail right on the head! Amen Bro. Your getting closer to the truth. The sheep come. They hear his voice. They are given to Christ by God. Saved eternally! Those given come & are not cast out. Those not given do not come. And are cast to the fire.:thumbs::sleeping_2:

 

Yes.

I guess the questions I still have are:

Who does the Father give to Christ? And why?

 

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

God so loved the world
that he sent his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son
into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world through him might be saved.

God is outside of time and sees who believes and knows who to call, who to predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, who to Justify (by the blood of His Son) and who to Glorify. He is everlasting to everlasting and sees all. He don't force no man to serve Him as the Calvinist say but gives all a choice but He is all in all and knows who the believer is.